AMD Zen3 event thread

[Vince]

It's disingenuous not to mention the missing VFM products in the line-up.

Who people like @Journey are crowing about not even coming further down the tracks. So AMD can gouge low-end buyers as much as humanly possible through forced upselling to a more expensive product.

If you are a low end buyer you have 3000 series, 2000 series and also 1600af all cheap with superb upgrade paths. If you don't like the price of the best all round processor on the planet then you can buy something else

You can almost guarantee APU's and non X sku's later down the line as OEM's etc will need 5000 series parts for the yearly refreshes. If you think they only release 4 products in a generation then you are mental.

 

[snips86x]

I actually think that they are well priced. I mean it's a substantial change to the arc, they are offering a proper uplift in performance not some couple of % here and there and its the best of the best. I actually think its an entirely fair amount of money to ask for a processor that really has no proper competition.

+1
Problem is, people don't see it like that. All they're doing is comparing the new release and prices against the old ones, wishing it was the same.

 

[Journey]

Who people like @Journey are crowing about not even coming further down the tracks. So AMD can gouge low-end buyers as much as humanly possible through forced upselling to a more expensive product.

Nobody is gouging anyone, you are free to buy something or not buy something, the 3600 or 3700X didn't suddenly become slower or more expensive over night. Yes progress needs to happen, but we are on DAY 1 post announcement and you are making it sound like they've been doing an Nvidia by not releveling their entire stack and business plan/model. You waited, it sucks, you didn't get your cheap CPU now you have to wait longer, boo hoo.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

Like I said before, seems we can upgrade every 1-2 generations now and expect decent boosts to overall performance. I would just exclude the small uplifts/refreshes.

 

[danlightbulb]

What do think will happen with a 5700X?

 

[Gypo]

+1
Problem is, people don't see it like that. All they're doing is comparing the new release and prices against the old ones, wishing it was the same.

People are stupid as shown on this forum and thread.

Prices are fine, bang for buck is amazing so long live Ryzen and **** Intel

 

[ljt]

+1
Problem is, people don't see it like that. All they're doing is comparing the new release and prices against the old ones, wishing it was the same.

Surely that's the whole point of progression? To get more performance out of a parts replacement, for the same cost? Otherwise it isn't progression and it leads to performance to price stagnation?

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

If your going by the zen 3 slides vs stock Intel CPU I still think Intel will win when overclocked and is now the cheaper option for 6 and 8 cores.

I don't think intel will still "win" at single-thread. I think that's clutching at straws.

And Zen2 gives you more cores again. Intel may well be cheaper than Zen 3 at 6 and 8 cores, but if you aren't trying to squeeze out those last few frames at 1080p (which you're not, because intel no longer hold that crown), then that doesn't matter, because Zen 2 are cheaper again and give you more cores and more performance.

Remember those nvidia slides showing the 3080 at double the performance of the 2080 when in reality it's 50-80% depending on the resolution. Will wait and see the proper benchmarks before taking a company at its word.

Of course, you always need to look for the real world tests. But assuming for now the claims are true (I am aware that that is a big assumption), between Zen2 and Zen3 there's really no need to even look at intel in this market.

 

[snips86x]

Surely that's the whole point of progression? To get more performance out of a parts replacement, for the same cost? Otherwise it isn't progression and it leads to performance to price stagnation?

Yes but given we've only got the USD prices and a rough conversion, as they stand they're ok. As pointed out in previous posts also, the stock of the 3 series is still around so they can't just price them the same as they'd never clear.

Intel and nVidia have been increasing prices for years, why is it now an issue when AMD do it?

 

[Armageus]

It's disingenuous not to mention the missing VFM products in the line-up.

Who people like @Journey are crowing about not even coming further down the tracks. So AMD can gouge low-end buyers as much as humanly possible through forced upselling to a more expensive product.

Just LOL.... because there obviously wont be any low end parts to come using partially failed dies etc., because that's never happened before.

Also obviously no new APUs yet to be announced.

 

[vapor matt]

I actually think that they are well priced. I mean it's a substantial change to the arc, they are offering a proper uplift in performance not some couple of % here and there and its the best of the best. I actually think its an entirely fair amount of money to ask for a processor that really has no proper competition.

I agree, and it brings intel back into line with pricing, if AMD didn't invest in Ryzen we would still be paying intel profit tax on there CPU's if it were intel you would be paying more for sure!

 

[Joxeon]

how do you know the AMD cpu can’t be over clocked? It’s weird that you are comparing two situations where the parts aren’t expected to do the same thing and drawing your own conclusions on unknown factors.


What we do know is that Latest intel CPU has very little overclock headroom due to the factory overclock. And we know that they boost much higher than even zen3. So in essence stock intel clocks higher and boosts higher and still looses.

how much does an overclocked 10900k give you in terms of performance with consumer grade cooling over a stock 10900k? Not a lot. If rumours are to be believed, these new zen3 chips able to hit 5GHz that will give you far bigger improvement over stock zen3 than intel.

anyway speculation on overclocked situation. But stock vs stock AMD is ahead. So let’s see how the reviews come out before we conclusively say one thing or the other.

honestly just put all your AMD fanboy and intel Fanboy mantra down for a second. This generation of AMD chip can be a watershed moment when the lead in the market swings. So best to approach this with a blank slate and look at ALL the facts and forget past dogma.

Gamersnexus said that these chips supposedly have even less OC headroom that the previous gen. Also the fclk won't be clocking higher than it does currently as its using the same IO die from zen 2.

I'm no fan boy of either brand and instead look for price to performance as the metric to measure whether or not a product is good or bad. At the 6 core price point we are getting 25% more performance for 50% more money so to me that doesn't look great and at the 8 core there is a 37% price increase so performance per $ is actually going backwards.

 

[Vince]

Surely that's the whole point of progression? To get more performance out of a parts replacement, for the same cost? Otherwise it isn't progression and it leads to performance to price stagnation?

No it's what you have become used to from AMD over a few product releases, not what normally happens in the industry as a whole. no historical data supports that ever really happening before. The 10900k is the 9900k replacement, msrp of 9900k? It was $488, msrp of 10900k? $600...

Progress at the same price rarely ever happens in the tech world.

 

[ljt]

Yes but given we've only got the USD prices and a rough conversion, as they stand they're ok. As pointed out in previous posts also, the stock of the 3 series is still around so they can't just price them the same as they'd never clear.

Intel and nVidia have been increasing prices for years, why is it now an issue when AMD do it?

I'm only going by dollar price as UK prices will fluctuate depending on £/$ rate, so lets stick to just $ for apples to apples comparison -

The 2000 series released at roughly the same price as 1000 series, and 1000 series was still being produced, the same happened when 3000 series was released, you could/can still get 2000 series, but prices remained pretty much flat across 1000>2000>3000

And it's not just an issue when AMD increase the price, as I've said, I've called it out when Intel and Nvidia do it to. I have no allegiance to any company, I'm not a fan of any company at all.

 

[Troezar]

Hi, this is out of topic but in your sig I notice you have the 5700XT Red Devil, Lian Li PC-011 Dynamic, I have the 5700xt sapphire nitro+ se and was thnking about getting the Lian Li PC-011 Dynamic is it air cooled ? and wondering what GPU temps you are getting in idle and load and at what RPM ?

Thanks

Hello. My GPU is air cooled and my CPU has a 240mm EK Phoenix on it. GPU temperature as per HWinfo is 65°C under load 55°C idle, junction temp 76°C and hot spot 85°C. Idle is 0RPM and load is 1,772 RPM.

I have three fans at the bottom blowing up and three vertically blowing in. CPU cooler exhausting out the top of the case. Case fans at a fixed 900RPM. Not silent but very quiet sat right next to me.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Indeed, you see it from all "fans" of Intel/Nvidia/AMD they must have vested interest via shares or something. I just can't comprehend why anyone would like a company enough to contemplate their profits/revenue etc.

I'm just a consumer, I don't particularly like any company, I don't give a knats knacker about a companies revenue/share price/profit, all I care about is the price for a given performance criteria of a product I have some interest in. I don't care who makes it, how much it's apparently cost them to make, all I care about is whether I think it's a good price. If it isn't, then it's my right to call it out and voice my opinion, and withhold my purchase until it fits my criteria.

This. Nobody in the UK complained when the government stepped into put pricing gaps on gas,etc. People were not going think of "poor Big Oil" and so on. Nobody cares about margins,profits,etc of retailers during a sale in a shop. Because buying a discount product also affects profits,margins,etc.

Its funny when so many mocked Nvidia for the Turing price rises,and Intel for doing the same,even though they had performance uplifts,and were the Top Dog for many years. It was all about value for money,not top performance. Intel and Nvidia were bad for milking gamers and enthusiasts,and nobody cared about margins,etc. Now AMD has top performance,suddenly doing what Intel and Nvidia does is fine.

 

[ljt]

No it's what you have become used to from AMD over a few product releases, not what normally happens in the industry as a whole. no historical data supports that ever really happening before. The 10900k is the 9900k replacement, msrp of 9900k? It was $488, msrp of 10900k? $600...

Progress at the same price rarely ever happens in the tech world.

No it didn't. Both the 9900k and 10900k were both $488 msrp

source of all msrp for Intel i9's;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i9_microprocessors

 

[uscool]

Hello. My GPU is air cooled and my CPU has a 240mm EK Phoenix on it. GPU temperature as per HWinfo is 65°C under load 55°C idle, junction temp 76°C and hot spot 85°C. Idle is 0RPM and load is 1,772 RPM.

I have three fans at the bottom blowing up and three vertically blowing in. CPU cooler exhausting out the top of the case. Case fans at a fixed 900RPM. Not silent but very quiet sat right next to me.

Thanks similar to what I get I have the Corsair 570x which i had for years guess i'll hold out for now

 

[Joxeon]

No it's what you have become used to from AMD over a few product releases, not what normally happens in the industry as a whole. no historical data supports that ever really happening before. The 10900k is the 9900k replacement, msrp of 9900k? It was $488, msrp of 10900k? $600...

Progress at the same price rarely ever happens in the tech world.

Atleast you are getting more cores for that $100 increase. 25% more cores for a 20% price increase seems reasonable.

 

[Vince]

No it didn't. Both the 9900k and 10900k were both $488 msrp

source of all msrp for Intel i9's;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i9_microprocessors

Hmmm the wiki does not agree with the google... or many release day reviews. I may be wrong but I still stick by it not being the norm in this industry. Ahh on further inspection the msrp was 488 but you couldn't actually buy it for 488 on release... nice.