AMD Zen3 event thread

[gpuerrilla]

I haven't upgraded for 9 years, thinking about it. 2012 was that long ago..

I just won't pay a penny more than the absolute lowest price I can get anything for, and if it's been cheaper before I will wait until it gets back to the lowest price it's ever been before buying. Anything.

Just the way my brain is wired

I might check out the 2nd hand price of 3700x chips. The lowest new price was £200 so I'll try to get one cheaper than that

Wow, I had a system upgrade last year to 3600 coming from a vishera 2013 rig, you are even worse!!

 

[gpuerrilla]

Look what happened with GPU prices. 10 years ago a top GPU was under £500 but now its £1500. Instead all you have is the same range of products,but with a wider range of tiers. This is what Intel did,they tiered everything and made you pay for every feature.
Since its only two vendors for X86 CPUs in the DIY market,if both decide to slowly increase prices,as long as something is available in the lower price points it will be enough for them. So both could literally just decide between both of them to only selling quad cores below £200.

Yeah all this roadmap **** started years and years ago. The conveyor belt is designed to just milk it each tick-tock. People got used to just accepting ~20% IPC increase etc its everyone's fault for letting that be the norm.

 

[Caracus2k]

I think AMD have made a misstep with this upcoming launch... The launch price of their 6 core part is rather closer to the price you could expect to pay for the CPU that arguably made six core CPU's somewhat mainstream (at least at the higher end) five years or so ago (the 5820k which was on sale at the time for 300 notes or less).

Performance charts are one thing and it may be silly but its still relevant that psychologically paying 290 notes for an AMD six core CPU in 2020 seems like a retrograde step compared to what AMD have offered to us since 2017.

Personally sitting on a 1800x/370x setup and a X99/5960x setup ill wait for the next round of AMD (or maybe Intel) CPU's using DDR5 before I make the next jump CPU or motherboard wise.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yeah all this roadmap **** started years and years ago. The conveyor belt is designed to just milk it each tick-tock. People got used to just accepting ~20% IPC increase etc its everyone's fault for letting that be the norm.

That is the problem people are not understanding. Adding £50~£100 each generation just because its faster,will start to add up within a generation or two. Zen4 will outperform Zen3,so instead of £300 for the Ryzen 5 6600X 6C,it will be £350. Then the Ryzen 5 6600 non-X will be £300. Intel will be quite happy to also do the same. Then they can sell 4C/8T CPUs under £300,because the 4C new generation is faster than the old 6C CPUs,etc and we are back to where we were 5 years ago,where anything more than 4C is at a premium.

This is what has been slowly happening with GPUs. Smaller and smaller chips sold for higher and higher prices. Both companies are happy not to push each other. We ended up with what was considered midrange die sizes being sold for enthusiast level pricing,and margins went sky high.

 

[Joxeon]

It's their company, so their choice.
If they want to chase a high dividend and stock price in the short term as opposed to longer term growth then they can.
A lot of shareholders are only in it for the short term gains.

The stock price has actually dropped which is highly unusual for a company that's just announced a world beating CPU line up...

 

[gpuerrilla]

That is the problem people are not understanding. Adding £50~£100 each generation just because its faster,will start to add up within a generation or two. Zen4 will outperform Zen3,so instead of £300 for the Ryzen 5 6600X 6C,it will be £350. Then the Ryzen 5 6600 non-X will be £300. Intel will be quite happy to also do the same. Then they can sell 4C/8T CPUs under £300,because the 4C new generation is faster than the old 6C CPUs,etc and we are back to where we were 5 years ago,where anything more than 4C is at a premium.

This is what has been slowly happening with GPUs. Smaller and smaller chips sold for higher and higher prices. Both companies are happy not to push each other. We ended up with what was considered midrange die sizes being sold for enthusiast level pricing,and margins went sky high.

Agree.

I got an 8 core back in 2013 as I needed an upgrade from my aging C2D setup. I know the progression and improvements etc but the 8 core back then cost me £100. With all the components creeping up as you say, look at the GPU's too, I had a top end 290x for just over £300 now that wont even get you an average mid range GPU.

 

[smilingcrow]

The stock price has actually dropped which is highly unusual for a company that's just announced a world beating CPU line up...

The market already had the Zen 3 performance built into the stock price as it was signalled ages ago.
AMD have released a cut down range and didn't qualify their supply clearly, so that alone could hit the price.
One interpretation of AMD releasing a limited set of SKUs with a focus on the 6 core chips is that they are supply constrained overall for fully functioning 8C chiplets.
It's easy to see why the market marked them down.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Agree.

I got an 8 core back in 2013 as I needed an upgrade from my aging C2D setup. I know the progression and improvements etc but the 8 core back then cost me £100. With all the components creeping up as you say, look at the GPU's too, I had a top end 290x for just over £300 now that wont even get you an average mid range GPU.

People have not learnt a single thing about what happened with GPUs,or Intel doing the same thing with CPUs. The worst thing is they target DIY builders as "high value" markets,ie,"high margin". Then they sell their CPUs and GPUs at much lower cost to OEMs. Intel spent billions literally giving away Atom CPUs to OEMs,whilst they were happily milking DIY builders with overpriced quad cores for years. Nvidia did the same with Tegra,made losses on that,but quite happily were milking gamers.So for years we were helping non-enthusiasts get cheaper tablets.

You can literally get an 8C AMD laptop for just over £600. Renoir is around 150MM2 in size on 7NM. A Zen2 CPU uses a 70MM2 chiplet,and the I/O die is made on a cheap GF process. Zen3 is unlikely to cost much more either. So Renoir is being sold at much lower margins. The consoles are being sold at lower margins. They jack up pricing on our parts to subsidise their OEM sales,and purchases of companies such as Xilinx.

Yet gamers/DIY builders think they actually owe these companies something - we owe them nothing,because quite clearly they are happy to drop prices for other sectors. We basically have to eat cake.

 

[Hotwired]

We basically have to eat cake.

What

 

[Joxeon]

all Intel needs to do now is price drop the 10600k to £200 and the 10700k to £300 and it's game over for AMD as the majority would go for those CPUs just like how people went with the lower performing but cheaper zen 2 and if AMD then had to cut prices on their new top performing chips to compete it would be rather embarrassing.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

What

I was paraphrasing "Let them eat cake".

Although some cake would be nice quite now!

 

[gpuerrilla]

So for years we were helping non-enthusiasts get cheaper tablets...
The consoles are being sold at lower margins. They jack up pricing on our parts to subsidise their OEM sales,and purchases of companies such as Xilinx.

Pretty much why I get annoyed when people nonchalantly buy products like 2080Ti's and other 'gaming' products that are overpriced, they are without realising it causing the companies to turn up the dial and set to 'OK they still are paying this lets keep notching it up' lol.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

all Intel needs to do now is price drop the 10600k to £200 and the 10700k to £300 and it's game over for AMD as the majority would go for those CPUs just like how people went with the lower performing but cheaper zen 2 and if AMD then had to cut prices on their new top performing chips to compete it would be rather embarrassing.

Intel could literally release a BIOS update which allows XMP RAM speeds on its B and H series motherboards. That means the non-K models could run full speed RAM,and that would make them more competitive. ATM,you can get a Core i5 10400F for £40 cheaper than a Ryzen 5 3600. It is mainly hampered by needing a Z series motherboard to run RAM at XMP settings.

Pretty much why I get annoyed when people nonchalantly buy products like 2080Ti's and other 'gaming' products that are overpriced, they are without realising it causing the companies to turn up the dial and set to 'OK they still are paying this lets keep notching it up' lol.

I found it ironic people on here were defending Nvidia and Intel price rises and tierisation,whilst both of them were giving away billions of dollars of SOCs to tablet OEMs. So that £100 tablet someone got from Tesco,was partially subsidised by gamers paying through the nose for DIY parts. Looks like we are this time helping AMD subsidise the consoles,as they can offset lower semi-custom margins with higher DIY and gamer margins. How nice PCMR is helping its console cousins!

 

[RavenXXX2]

AMD has the desktop mindshare now. Intel can sell cheaper, people still buy AMD. Ryzen tops nearly all Amazon CPU top 10 sellers. Servers market and laptops are next.

 

[queamin]

AMD can do no wrong on this forum.

When AMD put up prices it's for R&D. When Intel/nV put up prices it's corporate/shareholder greed.

I had a go at Amd for the rise 5600x and 5800x.

 

[SDK^]

The stock price has actually dropped which is highly unusual for a company that's just announced a world beating CPU line up...

Highly unusual? - not really.
Apples Shareprice always drops after an event or announcement, even when they release record qtr earnings.

The Shareprice of a company can be a strange thing and rarely aligns to how good/bad their products are. Most of the time it’s level is set by market perception which is lead by the stock analysts.
e.g Tesla were losing millions of dollars per month, yet their Shareprice remained high. To the point where they were valued $100 billion more than Ford, dispute Ford making billions in profits.

 

[Hotwired]

all Intel needs to do now is price drop the 10600k to £200 and the 10700k to £300 and it's game over for AMD as the majority would go for those CPUs just like how people went with the lower performing but cheaper zen 2 and if AMD then had to cut prices on their new top performing chips to compete it would be rather embarrassing.

So Intel needs to surrender the premium profit margins and slash prices on cpus which cost more to make than AMD's cpus?

How is Intel meant to win a race to the bottom when its chips cost more to make. No reason for them to start something that will hurt them more than AMD.

 

[Troezar]

Highly unusual? - not really.
Apples Shareprice always drops after an event or announcement, even when they release record qtr earnings.

The Shareprice of a company can be a strange thing and rarely aligns to how good/bad their products are. Most of the time it’s level is set by market perception which is lead by the stock analysts.
e.g Tesla were losing millions of dollars per month, yet their Shareprice remained high. To the point where they were valued $100 billion more than Ford, dispute Ford making billions in profits.

Yes, lots of overvalued companies now with traders chasing graphs rather than value. I know a lot of prior investing in companies with no idea what they're actually worth, they just see an upward trending share price.

 

[MoX_Farrow]

It's supply and demand at the end of the day I think. If people are willing to pay the amount a company asks for then that's what they'll do until it reaches a point where they can generate higher amounts of money from selling more units for less profit each.

 

[Darujhistan]

Yep, they're a ripoff, so I'll happily stay with my £120 2600, and I don't need anything more really for gaming. So now six cores is £300? I'll keep my money thanks, I might have bit at a reasonable price.