AMD Zen3 event thread

[CuriousTomCat]

I just don’t get the mindset of people trying to defend or justify what they have done with this launch. I brought the 3600 because it was the sweet spot for me, with the intention of dropping in an 8 core Zen 3 chip. Do they seriously think I’m going to spend PS5 money on an 8 core chip. Not a chance in hell. I’ll sit on what I have buy a PS5 and use the gpu upgrade money on 3 or 4 years worth of games.

This has to be the lowest point for me in all the time I’ve been into building pc’s. My money is better off elsewhere.

Surely the low point was the seven years between 2010 and 2017 when Intel were competing against themselves due to a lack on competition? Intel have reduced their prices since then so how can this be worse?

I'm very confident that AMD will release lots more Zen 3 products during the next 6 months. AMD kind of messed up last gen because they released the 3600 at Zen 2 launch so the 2600 had to be heavily reduced in price. I paid £100 for my 2600 which wasn't good for AMD. I think they'll try and sell the 3600, 3600x and 3700x before they announce the 5600 and 5700x. That way, they dont have to introduce price reductions. It makes sense.

 

[ljt]

Is this supposed to make me sad? Put me in my place? I couldn't give a flying toss about AMD, their shareholders, Lisa Su, or who she remembers and who she doesn't

I don't treat AMD as a friend. They aren't. I treat all corporations as if they were a bunch of ars wholes intent on stealing from me. Because they are.

I'm not going to give AMD more money because of anything Intel have done in the past, or because of some weird idea that AMD "deserve" some help (presumably for not being Intel?)

All of this is an amazingly stupid way to decide what to buy. I don't "support" anybody with my cash. It's just a transaction and I want to get a good deal, nothing more.

Totally agree, although I think pc-guy was referring to RavenXXX2 though

Trouble is with tech forums, you get people who treat these corporations as a cult, and it's a fruitless exercise to try and reason with them. As you say, no company "deserves" my money and I have no sympathy for any company.

 

[Doobedoo]

If the 5600x has a 19% single threaded uplift then surely 2 threads would be


Surely the low point was the seven years between 2010 and 2017 when Intel were competing against themselves due to a lack on competition? Intel have reduced their prices since then so how can this be worse?

I'm very confident that AMD will release lots more Zen 3 products during the next 6 months. AMD messed up last gen because they released the 3600 at launch so the 2600 had to be heavily reduced in price. I paid £100 for my 2600 which wasn't good for AMD. I think they'll try and sell the 3600, 3600x and 3700x before they announce the 5600 and 5700x. That way, they dont have to introduce price reductions. It makes sense.

What is your fetish with constantly bringing up Intel?

For me this is the worse time I can remember for building pc’s. Everyone is on the take Nvidia, Intel and now Amd. Overclockers do their bit to relieve you of your money whenever they can.

It’s embarrassing to me that all these companies choose to inflate prices at any chance while Sony are on the verge of making one of the biggest leaps in generational console releases, whilst keeping prices largely the same as the last gen. I’ve grown tired of it all. I don’t need all the fps’s yo! I just want bang for buck. I’ll pay a fair price for it but I will not pay over the odds. Ever.

I have been a big advocate of Amd and a long term buyer of its products but I’m massively disappointed at this release. Performance is great but the money grab doesn’t sit very well with me.

 

[FoxEye]

@Doobedoo Sony have pushed prices up too - buy setting the new price of PS5 games to $70. All their 1st party games are going to release at $70 now.

This was more than enough to put me off PS5. XSX is now what I'm looking at, with XBox game pass to keep costs down.

But exactly as you say - everybody is on the take. Everybody wants to push prices up, up, up. And in the end it's not for R&D and all that jazz, it's for the damn shareholders most of the time.

 

[Kashinoda]

From Zen -> Zen 2 we had
15% IPC improvement
7% gaming improvement

From Zen 2 -> Zen 3 we're (supposedly) getting
19% IPC improvement
26% gaming improvement

People seem to think AMD are shafting them with this price increase and I find it a bit baffling. If they had come out with the same leap in performance as last gen and priced similar I think people would be made up.

AMD are scaling Ryzen faster than any CPU in decades.

 

[Doobedoo]

@Doobedoo Sony have pushed prices up too - buy setting the new price of PS5 games to $70. All their 1st party games are going to release at $70 now.

This was more than enough to put me off PS5. XSX is now what I'm looking at, with XBox game pass to keep costs down.

But exactly as you say - everybody is on the take. Everybody wants to push prices up, up, up. And in the end it's not for R&D and all that jazz, it's for the damn shareholders most of the time.

Indeed they have and pc games will follow shortly but that is not that important to me as I rarely buy on release day and will happily buy second hand.

 

[FoxEye]

I'd treat that +26% gaming perf as unconfirmed, i.e. marketing.

Yet again NDAs probably won't drop till launch day so we have a wait to find out exactly how much gaming perf you will gain. There were plenty of single-digit gains in some games according to AMD's own slides from yesterday.

 

[Kashinoda]

I'd treat that +26% gaming perf as unconfirmed, i.e. marketing.

Yet again NDAs probably won't drop till launch day so we have a wait to find out exactly how much gaming perf you will gain. There were plenty of single-digit gains in some games according to AMD's own slides from yesterday.

Everything is unconfirmed at the moment, but everyone is arguing in this thread based on supposed performance of these chips. It's all we have to go on.

And it was 2 games out of 10 when comparing gen-on-gen.

 

[ljt]

From Zen -> Zen 2 we had
15% IPC improvement
7% gaming improvement

From Zen 2 -> Zen 3 we're (supposedly) getting
19% IPC improvement
26% gaming improvement

People seem to think AMD are shafting them with this price increase and I find it a bit baffling. If they had come out with the same leap in performance as last gen and priced similar I think people would be made up.

AMD are scaling Ryzen faster than any CPU in decades.

I'm don't feel like I'm being shafted by them because I'm not buying!

We all have our own reasoning behind purchasing something. I have set in stone criteria before I part with my cash on my PC. For example, for me to upgrade my cpu (3700x) it would take an 8c/16t (or higher) CPU (from any company, i couldn't care less who makes it) that is decently faster (+10-20% I'd call decent) for the same price I paid for the 3700x.

If one doesn't exist, then I don't buy. So the new 5000 series Ryzens, currently only meet 1 out of 2 of my criteria - the performance is there, but the price isn't, so it's a no deal from me!

That's how I pretty much deal with upgrading my PC (in regards to CPU/GPU's) I'm not loyal to any manufacturer, brand or retailer.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Also people have forgotten Intel was ahead of AMD in gaming generally. It was just AMD offered more of an ecosystem and more cores for the same price. Now they have decided to charge more than Intel per core,because they might be slightly ahead. The Ryzen 5 5600X is now £40 more expensive than a Core i5 10600K(can be had for under £250). The Ryzen 7 5800X looks to be around £80~£90 more expensive than a Core i7 10700K(is available for under £350) and now does not have a cooler.

The problem with this is if Intel's next 6C and 8C CPUs are competitive in gaming performance,they will also price them higher. Sure AMD can do 12C and 16C,but if their own 6C and 8C CPUs are priced upto £430,then its not going to matter for most gamers.

AMD are not using the ability to use sell more cores effectively to pressure Intel.

At this rate,we will end up with 6C being the new 4C,because we won't be finding any new CPU releases under £300 then having an 8C CPU. AMD and Intel will just use more cores as a way to push the upper price band upwards just like Nvidia did with the Titan.

I'm don't feel like I'm being shafted by them because I'm not buying!

We all have our own reasoning behind purchasing something. I have set in stone criteria before I part with my cash on my PC. For example, for me to upgrade my cpu (3700x) it would take an 8c/16t (or higher) CPU (from any company, i couldn't care less who makes it) that is decently faster (+10-20% I'd call decent) for the same price I paid for the 3700x.

If one doesn't exist, then I don't buy. So the new 5000 series Ryzens, currently only meet 1 out of 2 of my criteria - the performance is there, but the price isn't, so it's a no deal from me!

That's how I pretty much deal with upgrading my PC (in regards to CPU/GPU's) I'm not loyal to any manufacturer, brand or retailer.

This!

$50 off 5900x and 5600x will make them very attractive. 5800x probably $75 too dear. i still think there will be discount during the sales season.

We will see!

 

[clv101]

I think the price issue is being blown out of proportion - yes, per core it's more expensive than Intel. But it really looks better is pretty much everyway. Better value. No foul.

There are sure to be slightly lower spec, lower priced (non-X) chips next year. Nothing wrong with launching higher spec, higher priced models first. No foul.

The 3600 and 3700X still exist and offer excellent value for money - with a future upgrade path to 5900X or 5950X in a couple years time.

My advice for budget conscious builders this week is to grab an MSI B550 board and 3600 - pocket the cashback. Then next year think about swapping out for a Zen 3 part if you need more performance.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It does not look better value for me just going by AMD slides. The issue is AMD is using official Intel RRPs in its slides,but actual street prices are much lower. The Core i5 10600K is faster in pure gaming than any AMD CPU currently(check the GN review),and is £40 cheaper than a Ryzen 5 5600X. Its even worse for the Ryzen 7 5800X. It costs £85 more than a Core i7 10700K and does not even have a cooler included anymore.

The worst thing is that for many of us Intel wasn't worth it over AMD anyway,even if it was faster. This is why the Ryzen CPUs have sold well. This is why there is such a backlash on Reddit. People didn't like the Intel prices. Now AMD is going past Intel pricing,and validating it.

On top of this AMD hinted at a Ryzen 9 5900XT and Ryzen 9 5950XT. So there is probably a pricer Ryzen 7 5800XT in the wings.

Plus the problem is since AMD has now made sure it will charge nearly £450 for its 8C CPU,what happens if Intel early next year releases 8C Rocketlake and it is slightly faster in gaming?? Intel will also push their price up.

Have people learnt nothing from Nvidia and AMD slowly pushing up GPU pricing over the last 6 years??

People seem to forget Intel has been stuck on Skylake for 5 years and its taken 4 generations of Zen releases to bypass the ringbus Intel Skylake CPUs in gaming. Intel will go from Skylake to Willow Cove in one generation,bypassing Icelake and Sunny Cove together. IIRC,Intel already managed to bypass Zen2 in IPC with one of its newer mobile cores.

So that is a 3 generation IPC jump,and we all know Intel can still clock these CPUs quite high.

That means we will be stuck at 6C under £300 for years at this rate,and 8C will be back to being a premium option. We will be going backwards in core progression at the mainstream.

 

[FoxEye]

I think the price issue is being blown out of proportion - yes, per core it's more expensive than Intel. But it really looks better is pretty much everyway. Better value. No foul.

There are sure to be slightly lower spec, lower priced (non-X) chips next year. Nothing wrong with launching higher spec, higher priced models first. No foul.

The 3600 and 3700X still exist and offer excellent value for money - with a future upgrade path to 5900X or 5950X in a couple years time.

My advice for budget conscious builders this week is to grab an MSI B550 board and 3600 - pocket the cashback. Then next year think about swapping out for a Zen 3 part if you need more performance.

Somebody above mentioned the (rumour?) that the 3700x was going to hit £200 again soon.

IF that has any basis in reality, would be much more inclined to pocket one of those than a 3600.

However I somewhat doubt this rumour is true. Prices are rising, and the 5000 series puts no pressure on 3000 series prices, so they can continue to rise further still as they approach EOL.

 

[vapor matt]

I don't get the price is to high moaning its simple, if you don't like the price then don't buy. AMD have launched CPU's that beat the intel offerings. AMD like NVidia and intel are not in business to break even. it wasn't long ago AMD were close to folding and being no more.
I think the price is not bad considering what intel were charging pre Ryzen appearing on the market. if it wasn't for Ryzen intel would be raping everyone still. It was Ryzen which forced intel to reduce there prices.

 

[Joxeon]

Somebody above mentioned the (rumour?) that the 3700x was going to hit £200 again soon.

IF that has any basis in reality, would be much more inclined to pocket one of those than a 3600.

However I somewhat doubt this rumour is true. Prices are rising, and the 5000 series puts no pressure on 3000 series prices, so they can continue to rise further still as they approach EOL.

Yeah there is no chance AMD will sell the 3700X for £200 as it massively undercuts their new zen 3 CPUs. Why buy a 5800X at £430 or a 5600X at £290 if you can get a cpu that has more cores than the latter and games just as well unless you have a 3080 @1080p. sounds just like the argument people made for AMD over intel in the first place.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

Have people learnt nothing from Nvidia and AMD slowly pushing up GPU pricing over the last 6 years??

AMD almost always price their GPUs lower than Nvidia yet only 20% buy them. The other 80% bought the more expensive Nvidia GPU. Surely psychology has something to do with it? Higher price = more sales? I dont know. AMD's CPU competitor have always been more expensive yet got more sales. Higher priced tech does seem to get more sales.

 

[Joxeon]

AMD almost always price their GPUs lower than Nvidia yet only 20% buy them. The other 80% bought the more expensive Nvidia GPU. Surely psychology has something to do with it? Higher price = more sales? I dont know. AMD's CPU competitor have always been more expensive yet got more sales. Higher priced tech does seem to get more sales.

Looking at Intel vs AMD over the last year I would doubt that since AMD massively outsold Intel in the enthusiast market as people preferred the cheaper CPUs even over the more powerful and "expensive" Intel equivalents with CPUs like the 3600 and 3700X driving huge sales.

 

[Troezar]

AMD almost always price their GPUs lower than Nvidia yet only 20% buy them. The other 80% bought the more expensive Nvidia GPU. Surely psychology has something to do with it? Higher price = more sales? I dont know. AMD's CPU competitor have always been more expensive yet got more sales. Higher priced tech does seem to get more sales.

Price is less of a factor these days with easy credit, often at 0% and a "have it now", YOLO culture. Prestige and appearance is more of a seller. A fool and his money are easily parted as they say

Anyone who has the mindset of not wanting to spend more than £200 on a component is **** out of luck for the foreseeable.

 

[FoxEye]

Anyone who has the mindset of not wanting to spend more than £200 on a component is **** out of luck for the foreseeable.

Good job I enjoy moaning then

But I think £200 is still a price point AMD will need to service. Once the 3000 series goes EOL (they can't make them forever), AMD will need something at the £200 price point, and it had better not be a dual or quad core

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

AMD almost always price their GPUs lower than Nvidia yet only 20% buy them. The other 80% bought the more expensive Nvidia GPU. Surely psychology has something to do with it? Higher price = more sales? I dont know. AMD's CPU competitor have always been more expensive yet got more sales. Higher priced tech does seem to get more sales.

ATI frequently was much cheaper than Nvidia(sometimes they weren't),yet seemed to never hit such lows in sales shares.

The problem is since AMD said they "didn't want to be the budget brand" its backfired. With Polaris,they managed to be reasonably priced but got decent share. With Navi AMD lost sales share!

The Radeon 7 was worse value than the GTX1080TI. The RX5700XT was originally branded the RX680/RX690. They then saw the RTX2070 price and rebranded it with a higher price. Then Nvidia released the RTX2070 Super and RTX2060 Super and AMD was forced to reduce pricing. On top of this the RX5700XT stock cooler was terrible,and AMD managed to mess up drivers after launch too for a number of people.

Then having not learnt anything,they launched the RX5600XT. It was targetted towards the GTX1660TI as being slightly faster and a bit more expensive. Yet AMD had seemingly forgotten the GTX1660 Super had made the GTX1660TI pointless, or Nvidia could drop the RTX2060 price. So then they rushed out the overclock BIOS for the RX5600XT,which was a disaster. Then the less said about the RX5500XT the better. The GTX1650 Super was better value. Polaris was better value.

So no wonder AMD sales share went down - they were barely cheaper than Nvidia,had crap launches,crap coolers and driver problems. Nvidia also had RTX,etc which AMD lacked too. By the time AMD had fixed the problems,they had to push prices down as they were not selling. The sad thing is they are all reasonable GPUs,but AMD just lost track of the finer details.

Looking at Intel vs AMD over the last year I would doubt that since AMD massively outsold Intel in the enthusiast market as people preferred the cheaper CPUs even over the more powerful and "expensive" Intel equivalents with CPUs like the 3600 and 3700X driving huge sales.

If you look at all the sales share metrics,its the sub £300 area which is doing the best in sales.