And Lewis Hamilton matches Michael Schumacher's 7 titles!

[fez]

For the more serious F1 fans in here. How many titles has he won where he didn't have the best car for the majority of the season?

Thats why I think its so hard to say who are the best drivers in history. We have seen what has happened to Vettel since RB stopped dominating.

I want to see Hamilton compete against a driver considered one of the best in the pack in either the same or at least an equal quality car.

Arguably, over the past 10 years of his careers the only drivers that people would probaly think are near to him talent wise are Alonso, Vettel and Verstappen and none of them have been in a car that comes close to the Mercedes as far as I can tell.

Currently, I imagine that Mercedes have 0 desire to replace Bottas as he is the perfect teammate. They are so far above the other teams with their car that they could put almost anyone in it and it would still come 2nd enough to win them the constructors. Putting a more ambitious driver in there would just cause potential friction for 0 gain.

Fingers crossed we will see some proper competition for Mercedes in the coming years.

 

[deuse]

For the more serious F1 fans in here. How many titles has he won where he didn't have the best car for the majority of the season?

Thats why I think its so hard to say who are the best drivers in history. We have seen what has happened to Vettel since RB stopped dominating.

I want to see Hamilton compete against a driver considered one of the best in the pack in either the same or at least an equal quality car.

Arguably, over the past 10 years of his careers the only drivers that people would probaly think are near to him talent wise are Alonso, Vettel and Verstappen and none of them have been in a car that comes close to the Mercedes as far as I can tell.

Currently, I imagine that Mercedes have 0 desire to replace Bottas as he is the perfect teammate. They are so far above the other teams with their car that they could put almost anyone in it and it would still come 2nd enough to win them the constructors. Putting a more ambitious driver in there would just cause potential friction for 0 gain.

Fingers crossed we will see some proper competition for Mercedes in the coming years.

1 at McLaren. Not the best car.
It could have been 2 but he made a mistake.

 

[pepp77]

Lewis is also the only driver to win a race in every year he has competed in (14 years now), that also says a lot.

 

[Mr Jack]

For the more serious F1 fans in here. How many titles has he won where he didn't have the best car for the majority of the season?

3: 2008, 2017 and 2018. Of those, 2017 is the most borderline; but I'd argue it was at the very least clear that the Mercedes wasn't markedly better than the Ferrari. Swap Vettel and Hamilton and Hamilton would still have won 2017 and 2018.

 

[clv101]

I'm not a huge fan of LH, but he is undoubtedly one of the best F1 drivers ever. Very few mistakes over 14 years, so, so often able to produce the speed just when it's needed and generally a very fair racer unlike Schumacher.

One of the most disappointing aspects of F1 is how often driver potential is unseen due to uncompetitive machinery. I think Max has a good chance of beating him in truly equal hardware. But I can't see Hamilton not winning again in '21.

 

[fez]

I'm not a huge fan of LH, but he is undoubtedly one of the best F1 drivers ever. Very few mistakes over 14 years, so, so often able to produce the speed just when it's needed and generally a very fair racer unlike Schumacher.

I agree. For some reason a lot of people can't reconcile the idea that I like Hamilton as a driver and always root for him but I also think hes a bit of a nob at the same time. Hes definitely a modern day celebrity.

Hes the complete driver these days. The only chink in his amour is probably his race starts but outside of that he rarely makes mistakes. Some of that will be because hes been in the same car for a loooooong time and probably knows it inside out and part of it is that he has matured and improved as a driver year on year.

One of the most disappointing aspects of F1 is how often driver potential is unseen due to uncompetitive machinery. I think Max has a good chance of beating him in truly equal hardware. But I can't see Hamilton not winning again in '21.

Its the worst aspect of F1. The car is 95% of the equation. You can see how imperious Seb was in the RB Newey car. Literally sublime. Put him in a car that doesn't drive and behave in the same way and hes arguably nothing special. How many potential stars have drifted in and out of F1 who just never got to drive in a car that suited them or simply wasn't close to being competitive.

 

[pallys]

For the more serious F1 fans in here. How many titles has he won where he didn't have the best car for the majority of the season?

Thats why I think its so hard to say who are the best drivers in history. We have seen what has happened to Vettel since RB stopped dominating.

I want to see Hamilton compete against a driver considered one of the best in the pack in either the same or at least an equal quality car.

Arguably, over the past 10 years of his careers the only drivers that people would probaly think are near to him talent wise are Alonso, Vettel and Verstappen and none of them have been in a car that comes close to the Mercedes as far as I can tell.

Currently, I imagine that Mercedes have 0 desire to replace Bottas as he is the perfect teammate. They are so far above the other teams with their car that they could put almost anyone in it and it would still come 2nd enough to win them the constructors. Putting a more ambitious driver in there would just cause potential friction for 0 gain.

Fingers crossed we will see some proper competition for Mercedes in the coming years.

2008, 2017, 2018.
Vettel lead these championships at the half way point.

2010 if his BBS alloy wheel didn't crack at Spain he would've taken that one too.

Vice versa Schumacher won too much by cheating, whether it was ramming Hill or illegal option 13 on his steering wheel that he said he never uses, yeah right.

Schumacher also always had the spar t car setup for him only. His teammates were also never allowed to see his data but he could see theirs.

Fangio used to tell his teammates to get out of the car if he thought his teammates car was better. Fangio was also a mercenary and always moved to whoever had the best car, he had no loyalty and built no team.

Senna was also dirty and a mercenary.

Hamilton has already been benchmarked in his rookie year Vs the reigning 2x WDC Alonso.
What more do you want, a rematch?

Hamilton actually earned his kudos in the first half of career, you just had to watch him. It's why Ross Brawn signed him and nobody else.

 

[fez]

Hamilton has already been benchmarked in his rookie year Vs the reigning 2x WDC Alonso.
What more do you want, a rematch?

They finished on the same number of points and that was a single season out of 13.

I want to see him pushed. I want an exiciting championship. Don't you? All of the greatest eras in sport are when there is a crop of elite performers who all make each other better and take the sport to new levels. Tennis has had an utterly golden generation recently for exactly that reason.

I don't know why people are so defensive when anyone dares to question Hamilton or suggest that they would like to see him given stiffer competition occasionally. I've already said I consider him one of the greatest drivers ever. I just wanted a discussion on his record.

 

[pallys]

They finished on the same number of points and that was a single season out of 13.

I want to see him pushed. I want an exiciting championship. Don't you? All of the greatest eras in sport are when there is a crop of elite performers who all make each other better and take the sport to new levels. Tennis has had an utterly golden generation recently for exactly that reason.

I don't know why people are so defensive when anyone dares to question Hamilton or suggest that they would like to see him given stiffer competition occasionally. I've already said I consider him one of the greatest drivers ever. I just wanted a discussion on his record.

Not getting defensive at all, just wanted to make clear he already benchmarked against the best in his era, in his rookie year, in an identical car. Equal points you say yes, but FIA ranked Lewis higher due to more podium finishes. Lewis lead the season from the 4th race on.

Don't you think that's amazing?

Max is frequently mentioned but he doesn't even match Alonso imo, never mind lewis.

I want to see Hamilton compete against a driver considered one of the best in the pack in either the same or at least an equal quality car.

 

[pallys]

Oh, and no I don't want to see him pushed anymore, I've seen it all and 3 WDC teammates is WAY MORE than a fair share. More than Schumacher ever agreed to.

I just want to see him win and ensure the success and the history books reward the talent he has.

He has nothing left to prove.

 

[Mr Jack]

They finished on the same number of points and that was a single season out of 13.

His first season. Quite amazing for a rookie to deliver such a stunning performance.

I want to see him pushed. I want an exiciting championship. Don't you? All of the greatest eras in sport are when there is a crop of elite performers who all make each other better and take the sport to new levels. Tennis has had an utterly golden generation recently for exactly that reason.

Totally. I want to see closer racing between more drivers across a whole season. That's what of the weirdest things about this season: if you took out the top three this would be one of the most changeable and exciting seasons ever. Hell, even dropping Lewis would make it a close run thing between Bottas and Max with a huge battle for third. Yet, as it is, Lewis has walked away with the WDC. There's a certain pleasure in the admiration for the towering brilliance of a team like Mercedes but it doesn't compare to the joy of truly great season closely contested between multiple teams and drivers.

I hope that 2022 can deliver on its promise and usher in a new golden age of F1. The lineup of young drivers is the most exciting in years and there's more to come from the feeder series. If the cars can really race properly without DRS with the new aero regs, and the budget caps bring the teams closer together, then we could be looking at some fabulous years to come.

I don't know why people are so defensive when anyone dares to question Hamilton or suggest that they would like to see him given stiffer competition occasionally. I've already said I consider him one of the greatest drivers ever. I just wanted a discussion on his record.

It's because we've seen so many over the years diminishing what he has achieved. I don't mean to be prickly.

 

[Ninco!]

The Hill clash was way less egregious than the Villeneuve one in '97.

Every driver in vaguely recent history would have gone for the gap as Hill did (with the possible exception of Prost), and every one of those drivers including Prost would have turned in as Schumacher did.

Jerez '97...Schumacher deserved to lose that one simply for how ineptly he tried to take JV out

I always wonder if Schumacher would have turned in on say, Senna or Mansell if they were in the same situation as Hill was at Adelaide '94? I tend to think he wouldn't have, all hell would have broken loose.

 

[adam cool dude]

I agree. For some reason a lot of people can't reconcile the idea that I like Hamilton as a driver and always root for him but I also think hes a bit of a nob at the same time. Hes definitely a modern day celebrity.

Hes the complete driver these days. The only chink in his amour is probably his race starts but outside of that he rarely makes mistakes. Some of that will be because hes been in the same car for a loooooong time and probably knows it inside out and part of it is that he has matured and improved as a driver year on year.




Its the worst aspect of F1. The car is 95% of the equation. You can see how imperious Seb was in the RB Newey car. Literally sublime. Put him in a car that doesn't drive and behave in the same way and hes arguably nothing special. How many potential stars have drifted in and out of F1 who just never got to drive in a car that suited them or simply wasn't close to being competitive.

That is the main problem. Technology is just too far along that the actual spectacle of the driver is lost somewhat. Mansell coming back after 18 months out and winning a race in a Williams just wouldn't happen today.

Vettel won four championships but is better than Nigel Mansel who only won one? I highly doubt it. Mansell did some spectacular drives in lesser machinery that only Vettel could dream of. What if Schumacher stuck it out for another couple of years at Mercedes. He would have had at least another couple of championships to his name. I would also put Alonso, Button, Raikonen all being multiple world champions if they went to Mercedes instead of Hamilton.

This is no dig at Hamilton but if any of the top 5 drivers of the time had made the switch to Mercedes in 2013 they would more than likely be the ones smashing records. I highly doubt Hamilton would compete in a Ferrari or Red Bull during those years.

 

[deuse]

Oh, and no I don't want to see him pushed anymore, I've seen it all and 3 WDC teammates is WAY MORE than a fair share. More than Schumacher ever agreed to.

I just want to see him win and ensure the success and the history books reward the talent he has.

He has nothing left to prove.

Pity he will never beat Schumacher record of 3 WDC with 3 different engines.
I can't see that ever being beaten.

 

[Mr Jack]

That is the main problem. Technology is just too far along that the actual spectacle of the driver is lost somewhat. Mansell coming back after 18 months out and winning a race in a Williams just wouldn't happen today.

Let's see what Alonso does, but I suspect you're right.

What if Schumacher stuck it out for another couple of years at Mercedes. He would have had at least another couple of championships to his name. I would also put Alonso, Button, Raikonen all being multiple world champions if they went to Mercedes instead of Hamilton.

Nah, Rosberg would be a multiple champion. Schumacher, post break, was comfortably beaten by him and I rather suspect he'd have the measure of Button and Kimi too. Alonso maybe could have won against him; it'd have certainly got dirty.

This is no dig at Hamilton but if any of the top 5 drivers of the time had made the switch to Mercedes in 2013 they would more than likely be the ones smashing records. I highly doubt Hamilton would compete in a Ferrari or Red Bull during those years.

As I said above, I'm pretty sure Hamilton would have won 2017 and 2018 if he'd swapped with Vettel. In 2018, after all, Bottas couldn't even manage a win in equal machinery.

 

[pallys]

That is the main problem. Technology is just too far along that the actual spectacle of the driver is lost somewhat. Mansell coming back after 18 months out and winning a race in a Williams just wouldn't happen today.

Vettel won four championships but is better than Nigel Mansel who only won one? I highly doubt it. Mansell did some spectacular drives in lesser machinery that only Vettel could dream of. What if Schumacher stuck it out for another couple of years at Mercedes. He would have had at least another couple of championships to his name. I would also put Alonso, Button, Raikonen all being multiple world champions if they went to Mercedes instead of Hamilton.

This is no dig at Hamilton but if any of the top 5 drivers of the time had made the switch to Mercedes in 2013 they would more than likely be the ones smashing records. I highly doubt Hamilton would compete in a Ferrari or Red Bull during those years.

Thing is vettel was ridiculed by everyone as a one trick pony and was labelled a crash kid. He still hasn't won a race from lower than p3.

Schumacher staying on at Merc would not win more wdc because Rosberg had shown him a clean pair of heels 3 years straight.

Pity he will never beat Schumacher record of 3 WDC with 3 different engines.
I can't see that ever being beaten.

I didn't even know that was a thing.

 

[SoliD]

Pity he will never beat Schumacher record of 3 WDC with 3 different engines.
I can't see that ever being beaten.

Surely fangio has that record?

 

[CSMonkeh]

Surely fangio has that record?

So does Prost...

 

[Kenai]

What if Schumacher stuck it out for another couple of years at Mercedes. He would have had at least another couple of championships to his name.

Interesting suggestion, given Rosberg beat him in all three of his return series - i'd say it's more likely Rosberg would have picked up a couple of titles if the pairing had stayed Schumacher/Rosberg

 

[deuse]

I didn't even know that was a thing.

Now you do