And Lewis Hamilton wins his 5th Championship!

Deleted member 651465 · 29 Nov 2018 at 22:19

Vettel went from a high possibility P1/2 to a P3/4/5 in the space of 2 races.

Either the Merc or RB pulled out something special or Ferrari went backwards. Or both.

Either way, his season imploded at the exact wrong moment and he never recovered.

GravyMonster · 30 Nov 2018 at 09:48

I saw that two-halves stat - Hamilton scored 245 points of a possible 275 in the last 11 races. Only dropping 30 points from the maximum available in that time is almost unbelievable.

rubberduck · 30 Nov 2018 at 12:07

Spunkey said:
I saw that two-halves stat - Hamilton scored 245 points of a possible 275 in the last 11 races. Only dropping 30 points from the maximum available in that time is almost unbelievable.

Vettel did better in 2013. Just saying.

Mr Jack · 30 Nov 2018 at 13:38

EVH said:
Either the Merc or RB pulled out something special or Ferrari went backwards. Or both.

Neither. Look at Kimi, he scored 116 pts in the first 10 races, and 135 in the next 11. A very similar pace. Or look at Bottas: 106 vs 141. Again: similar.

It wasn't the cars that shifted, it was the drivers: Max stopped driving into other drivers so much and Vettel started.

GravyMonster · 30 Nov 2018 at 15:35

rubberduck said:
Vettel did better in 2013. Just saying.

I never said that he didn't...?

rubberduck · 30 Nov 2018 at 16:11

Spunkey said:
I never said that he didn't...?

I never said you did.

CaptainRAVE · 30 Nov 2018 at 17:04

rubberduck said:
Vettel did better in 2013. Just saying.

With zero competition. The red bull was untouchable.

rubberduck · 30 Nov 2018 at 17:56

CaptainRAVE said:
With zero competition. The red bull was untouchable.

Team mate in same machinery.

GravyMonster · 30 Nov 2018 at 19:13

rubberduck said:
I never said you did.

You implied it by needlessly rushing to Vettels defence as if my original statement somehow attacked him. As @CaptainRAVE said, the RB in 2013 was in a class of its own. Vettels only competition then was a past-it Webber who'd pretty much checked out.

The Mercedes this year was nowhere near as dominant. They had to contend with Vettel, assuming he'd bothered to show up that weekend, and the Red Bulls when the circuit suited them.

HaroldSaxon · 30 Nov 2018 at 19:22

Spunkey said:
You implied it by needlessly rushing to Vettels defence as if my original statement somehow attacked him. As @CaptainRAVE said, the RB in 2013 was in a class of its own. Vettels only competition then was a past-it Webber who'd pretty much checked out.

The Mercedes this year was nowhere near as dominant. They had to contend with Vettel, assuming he'd bothered to show up that weekend, and the Red Bulls when the circuit suited them.

Big fan of Vettel, but i'm starting to agree with this. Bottas is also showing how good Rosberg was too.

Also Vettel had a bad final year with RB didn't he?

CaptainRAVE · 30 Nov 2018 at 19:24

HaroldSaxon said:
Big fan of Vettel, but i'm starting to agree with this. Bottas is also showing how good Rosberg was too.

Also Vettel had a bad final year with RB didn't he?

Yes, looking back you have to give rosberg credit. I don’t like the guy, but he pushed Hamilton. Bottas is nowhere.

4K8KW10 · 30 Nov 2018 at 19:35

Mr Jack said:
It wasn't the cars that shifted, it was the drivers: Max stopped driving into other drivers so much and Vettel started.

Sounds like a scenario from a tragedy theatre

CaptainRAVE · 30 Nov 2018 at 19:38

rubberduck said:
Team mate in same machinery.

That is different to now how exactly? Bottas doesn’t exactly help the argument that you are trying to make.

Mr Jack · 30 Nov 2018 at 21:04

HaroldSaxon said:
Bottas is also showing how good Rosberg was too.

Aye, without Hamilton to measure against, Rosberg would be a Vettel-level multiple champion by now.

Vettel had a bad final year with RB didn't he?

Nah, he was just thoroughly out-classed.

this_is_gav · 1 Dec 2018 at 10:24

Mr Jack said:
Nah, he was just thoroughly out-classed.

He wasn't great, but it was purely bad luck he finished behind Ricciardo. He was shafted by the team in Montreal (otherwise he would have won) and he was miles ahead of Ricciardo in Hungary when the safety car came out just after he'd passed the pits - Ricciardo was able to pit in time and as a result won the race.

He'd been tapped up by Ferrari for most of the season, so I guess both he and Red Bull knew he was almost certainly off long before it was confirmed. Even in pre-season he wasn't on it - he was arriving just before driving and leaving immediately after to be with his new-born baby (born just before pre-season). His priorities had changed.

Mr Jack · 1 Dec 2018 at 11:58

this_is_gav said:
He wasn't great, but it was purely bad luck he finished behind Ricciardo. He was shafted by the team in Montreal (otherwise he would have won) and he was miles ahead of Ricciardo in Hungary when the safety car came out just after he'd passed the pits - Ricciardo was able to pit in time and as a result won the race.

Ricciardo took three wins; Vettel took none. That's the bottom line and, yes, Seb had some bad luck but so did Daniel; that's F1. Either way, it was obvious to anyone watching that Ricciardo was simply driving better than Vettel throughout the season, and the result reflected that.

4K8KW10 · 6 Dec 2018 at 09:41

'Ferrari would have won with Lewis Hamilton' - Luca di Montezemolo https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaO...h-lewis-hamilton-luca-di-montezemolo-20181204

With Lewis Hamilton at the wheel, Ferrari would have won the 2018 world championship.
That is the view of Luca di Montezemolo, the former Ferrari president.
'Ferrari would have won'
He told Rai radio that Hamilton fully deserved his fifth drivers' title this year, secured at the wheel of his Mercedes.

CaptainRAVE · 6 Dec 2018 at 09:42

4K8KW10 said:
'Ferrari would have won with Lewis Hamilton' - Luca di Montezemolo https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaO...h-lewis-hamilton-luca-di-montezemolo-20181204

Easily.

The_Abyss · 6 Dec 2018 at 11:42

Ferrari would likely have won with Lewis Hamilton. Or Verstappen, who has shown good qualifying speed and then a great ability to control a race once at the front. Or Alonso, who drove the wheels off the McLaren. Or Ricciardo, who had sub-par year due to car issues but still performed reasonably well himself.

But all these drivers would still need to overcome the shortcomings of the Ferrari trackside operational management, which didn't exactly cover itself in glory all season.

I just hope that this doesn't go down as the season Hamilton and Mercedes won the championships because Ferrari screwed it up. Yes, there's an element of that but it feels to me that a lot of the Ferrari, driver and management, errors were down to the immense and relentless pressure that Hamilton and Mercedes put them under. They choked.

jonneymendoza · 6 Dec 2018 at 12:30

The_Abyss said:
Ferrari would likely have won with Lewis Hamilton. Or Verstappen, who has shown good qualifying speed and then a great ability to control a race once at the front. Or Alonso, who drove the wheels off the McLaren. Or Ricciardo, who had sub-par year due to car issues but still performed reasonably well himself.

But all these drivers would still need to overcome the shortcomings of the Ferrari trackside operational management, which didn't exactly cover itself in glory all season.

I just hope that this doesn't go down as the season Hamilton and Mercedes won the championships because Ferrari screwed it up. Yes, there's an element of that but it feels to me that a lot of the Ferrari, driver and management, errors were down to the immense and relentless pressure that Hamilton and Mercedes put them under. They choked.

indeed

And Lewis Hamilton wins his 5th Championship!

Deleted member 651465

Deleted member 651465