Another news agency lying through its teeth

ilcp said:
Are you serious? I will blame Iran when you guys blame the USA for what Israel does to Palestine! How much does Iran support Hamas?.
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Yes I'm deadly serious. You should read this article published today I believe:

http://time.com/2977228/israel-iran-hamas/

In every conflict, people on the outside pick a side. You've chosen yours. Personally I support Israel. That's not to say I don't criticise Israel because I do, but I'm not getting into that now. We all know what's going on out there on both sides of the conflict. The heart of this issue is religion. Both sides believe they have god on their side and both sides are intractable toward each other. The actual ordinary people in Palestine and Israel, for the most part, just want peace. It's the fundamentalist leaders on both sides that are the problem in my view. The subtle difference in the whole equation is that the USA funds Israel, and Iran funds Hamas. It's a cold war by proxy, with the victims being ordinary Palestinian and Israeli people.
 
Sliver said:
Yes I'm deadly serious. You should read this article published today I believe:

http://time.com/2977228/israel-iran-hamas/

In every conflict, people on the outside pick a side. You've chosen yours. Personally I support Israel. That's not to say I don't criticise Israel because I do, but I'm not getting into that now. We all know what's going on out there on both sides of the conflict. The heart of this issue is religion. Both sides believe they have god on their side and both sides are intractable toward each other. The actual ordinary people in Palestine and Israel, for the most part, just want peace. It's the fundamentalist leaders on both sides that are the problem in my view. The subtle difference in the whole equation is that the USA funds Israel, and Iran funds Hamas. It's a cold war by proxy, with the victims being ordinary Palestinian and Israeli people.
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The heart of the issue is not religion the issue is Israeli killing/ forcing out Palestinians from their land and colonizing it for 66 years, do you even see Palestine on the map today? No you see Gaza strip and West bank.

If were to come to your house punch you in the face, and say "get out your house is now mine god gave it to me" would you not fight back?
 
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ak22 said:
The heart of the issue is not religion the issue is Israeli killing/ forcing out Palestinians for there land and colonizing it for 66 years, do you even see Palestine on the map today?
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If that's your view then you don't have a realistic grasp of the conflict.
 
ak22 said:
do you even see Palestine on the map today?
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Exactly why should anyone care about a few goat herders?

If were to come to your house punch you in the face, and say "get out your house is now mine god gave it to me" would you not fight back?
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Happened to us all in 1066, we lost.

Now we all drive cars, drink wine and have Sky TV.
So, not so bad after all...
 
ak22 said:
It is what started the conflict
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The Arabs started the conflict.

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly recommended the adoption and implementation of the partition plan of Mandatory Palestine. On 14 May 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared "the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel," a state independent upon the termination of the British Mandate for Palestine, 15 May 1948. Neighbouring Arab armies invaded Palestine on the next day and fought the Israeli forces.
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The Jews had a sovereign claim to a homeland which was sanctioned by the UN and the allies following WW2. Had the Arabs not immediately attacked them in the first place, we might well not see the mayhem we see today. The Arabs made the first move of aggression.
 
Sliver said:
The Arabs started the conflict.



The Jews had a sovereign claim to a homeland which was sanctioned by the UN and the allies following WW2. Had the Arabs not immediately attacked them in the first place, we might well not see the mayhem we see today. The Arabs made the first move of aggression.
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Right.... so because the U.N decided to dived some one home land it was ok? great logic. They had no claim it was Palestine Muslim, Jews, Christians were living there.

U.N. Charter is considered a “law-making treaty”, the United Nations itself is not an international legislature that can make laws or pass legislations. The United Nations had no business offering the nation of one people to the people of many nations.
 
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Sliver said:
The Arabs started the conflict.



The Jews had a sovereign claim to a homeland which was sanctioned by the UN and the allies following WW2. Had the Arabs not immediately attacked them in the first place, we might well not see the mayhem we see today. The Arabs made the first move of aggression.
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wow, so if the UN just gave london away to, for history's sake lets say the Germans... then the English tried to drive them off, it would be the English peoples fault for starting the fight?

The jewish people had precisely no claim to that land, at all, it was occupied by people and it was utterly bat**** crazy to dictate to an existing country that it was to be torn to pieces and someone else was going to live there.

The mayhem was caused by simply picking some country and taking part of it away from them. The Germans did that, and we got involved in a world war to stop them simply taking bits of land that didn't belong to them, yet we were happy to do the same to some arabs we didn't care about on a piece of land we didn't care about.

I don't know if I think the Palestinians are right, but overall they are a people that were completely illegally invaded, had their land taken from them, and they've been oppressed completely ever since. But because the UN, and the US/UK were involved... we just pretend like it wasn't entirely the wrong thing to do and continue to basically support Israel.
 
This is the issue, everyone fights their side based on history, such a wasted perspective. We are today in a position, you have a free reign, how would you fix it?
 
Housey said:
This is the issue, everyone fights their side based on history, such a wasted perspective. We are today in a position, you have a free reign, how would you fix it?
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50-50 land split, break down the walls, give the right for refuges to return, no classing people as second class citizens due race or religious beliefs. Thats what I would like to see but doubt it will ever happen :(
 
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Housey said:
Now go sell that to both sides as frankly neither of them will accept it.
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Hahaha of course not not in my life time, but we can live in hope that they will find peace and the blood shed will end 66 years of war is beyond stupidity.
 
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Given ISIS's and al-Qaeda's violent attitude towards historic monuments, Jerusalem is safer in the hands of the Israelis.

They are why muslims can't have nice things
 
Housey said:
We are today in a position, you have a free reign, how would you fix it?
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The two state solution has to be the answer. Both Jews and Arabs have the right to live there in peace. If you took religion out of this we'd be a damn site nearer to a workable peaceable future.
 
ak22 said:
Hahaha of course not not in my life time, but we can live in hope that they will find peace and the blood shed will end 66 years of war is beyond stupidity.
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But they won't, too many interested parties and frankly crooks on both sides who know it involves them losing power and no side is willing to do that. They very nearly got there some years back, but at the 11th hour those parties said no and it all fell apart. Then they go off to control the minds of the people they need to convince and that is why we have threads like this each week. Divisive arguments about who is right and wrong and stances taken and sadly this is the same for Israel. Until you stop talking about 65 years ago (we all know the facts) it will never move. Until you stop saying all Israelis or all Palestinians to uphold your argument you will go nowhere. Ive been there, you meet people in Israel form both cultures and you start to appreciate that when you cut through the rhetoric people are people and just want to live. Sadly the crooks on both sides will simply never allow that and THAT is the tragedy. Those who follow a side are the problem. Hearing the uncle of one of the lads killed the other week was refreshing, he was as vitriolic about those who killed the young arab lad as he was for his own family. More minds like him on both sides are what is needed, but 'they' won't allow that.
 
Throws fishing line out...... :p

Dont talk to me about the Jews! :mad:

Talk about get away with everything,
but I suppose us goyim should just get on with it and say nowt. :rolleyes:
 
If you walk into a Lion's cage, taunt it and poke it with a stick, you can't claim foul when it jumps on top of you and mauls you. Especially if it was roaring and flicking its tail beforehand as a warning.

You certainly can't squeal about it's over aggressive reaction or that proportional force was not being used either. "It was only a pointed stick and some firecrackers. I never killed any of the cubs. It was only to get it to jump through some hoops."

Please!
 
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