ANOTHER school shooting in the US

MookJong · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:27

I'm guessing this guy must have been teased or humiliated by girls of that age when he was younger. Clearly he never got over it, must have been bubbling under all of these years until he hit breaking point. Bizzare how the mind works.....

What a waste.

afraser2k · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:29

Captain Planet said:
Do you have anything to back up your claim that a ban would solve nothing?

We also hear about children in the US taking gun's to school. Where do you think they get these gun's? I'd hazard a guess at their parent's cupboard. If a ban on gun's prevented just one person (especially a school girl) being killled it would be worth it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm

I just look at our news about all the gun crime we have. We have a ban on guns in the UK and still have a major problem with gun crime. A ban on guns will only make a few people feel better for a few weeks until it happens again.

Our children are taking air rifles into school as well as knives and many other weapons. If children want to kill they'll still do it, no matter if it's a gun, knife, brick or other item used as a weapon.

Mr Jones · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:30

Visage said:
baseless bile

Had to LOL at that.

/Science Nerd Mode

Anyway, I'm sure the Americans can have lessons introduced into their schools on "Guns" teaching them common sense to Gun use, precaution, correct usage in situations e.t.c.

That would help in the long run.

Short term solutions? Pfff, no such nonsense.

Sinizterguy · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:30

Visage said:
Not everything the Daily Mail says is true. Can you come up with any examples of this baseless bile?

I am not going to waste my time finding those bits of news that I would rather not see anyway. Keep your eyes open, read the news daily and you will find such examples quite quickly.

Visage · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:34

Sinizterguy said:
I am not going to waste my time finding those bits of news that I would rather not see anyway. Keep your eyes open, read the news daily and you will find such examples quite quickly.

Translation: I dont have to come up with evidence because I know its TRUE, dagnammit!

FTM · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:35

I can see both sides of the arguement really

guns are bad..but so are knives and anybody can get hold of them..indeed stabbings of innocent people seem a daily occurence in britain at the moment

in the US anybody can have a gun..sensible normal people as well as crazy people and criminals

in this country only crazy people and criminals have guns...which seems worse to me..I still run the risk of getting shot randomly by some bloke who wants my watch/wallet/mobile phone...but have no way to counter that

criminals in this country seem more willing to use violence for no reason than in the past.and they know they can get away with it as long as they chose their victims..if they avoid people like themselves they know they can commit crime with no real risk..its only when they fight amongst themselves they run the risk of running across somebody else who may be armed

I think I would prefer guns for all then at least its an even playing field..as it is in this country its guns for the criminal minority and only the innocent are preyed upon

Visage · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:36

afraser2k said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm

I just look at our news about all the gun crime we have. We have a ban on guns in the UK and still have a major problem with gun crime. A ban on guns will only make a few people feel better for a few weeks until it happens again.

Our children are taking air rifles into school as well as knives and many other weapons. If children want to kill they'll still do it, no matter if it's a gun, knife, brick or other item used as a weapon.

Hang on - gun crime rose after guns were banned? Like no-one could see that coming.

If newspapers were made illegal we'd see 'newspaper crime' rise from a level of 0 to some other number. Its self evident that, if you make something illegal, that will raise crime statistics related to it, simply by dint of the fact that there are mosre situations that are now illegal......

Mr Jones · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:37

Sinizterguy said:
I am not going to waste my time finding those bits of news that I would rather not see anyway. Keep your eyes open, read the news daily and you will find such examples quite quickly.

I personally find reading the news panful. 9/10 the articles biased and/or spinned/twisted to suit the needs of the papers.

It's quite annoy these days.

Anyway, back on topic.

afraser2k · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:40

Visage said:
Hang on - gun crime rose after guns were banned? Like no-one could see that coming.

If newspapers were made illegal we'd see 'newspaper crime' rise from a level of 0 to some other number. Its self evident that, if you make something illegal, that will raise crime statistics related to it, simply by dint of the fact that there are mosre situations that are now illegal......

That's my point though. A ban on guns doesn't solve the problem of gun crime, it increases it.

Mr Jones · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:41

FTM said:
criminals in this country seem more willing to use violence for no reason than in the past.and they know they can get away with it as long as they chose their victims..if they avoid people like themselves they know they can commit crime with no real risk..its only when they fight amongst themselves they run the risk of running across somebody else who may be armed

Also, UK do not have the Death sentence, the Amerians do. Sensible criminals will think twice before they decide to go out on a homocidal skilling spree whilst mugging with a gun. *Does not apply to people who've snapped.

Edit:

afraser2k said:
That's my point though. A ban on guns doesn't solve the problem of gun crime, it increases it.

I think what visage is trying to say is, it increases because statistically, when guns weren't banned, numbers were high, but after the ban, numbers are higher because it becomes illegal to carry a gun and that may or may not be included in the stats used by the article.

When people look for something more specifically, they usually find more than what they did.

Visage · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:42

FTM said:
I can see both sides of the arguement really

guns are bad..but so are knives and anybody can get hold of them..indeed stabbings of innocent people seem a daily occurence in britain at the moment

in the US anybody can have a gun..sensible normal people as well as crazy people and criminals

in this country only crazy people and criminals have guns...which seems worse to me..I still run the risk of getting shot randomly by some bloke who wants my watch/wallet/mobile phone...but have no way to counter that

criminals in this country seem more willing to use violence for no reason than in the past.and they know they can get away with it as long as they chose their victims..if they avoid people like themselves they know they can commit crime with no real risk..its only when they fight amongst themselves they run the risk of running across somebody else who may be armed

I think I would prefer guns for all then at least its an even playing field..as it is in this country its guns for the criminal minority and only the innocent are preyed upon

A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense.

(A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40.)

Visage · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:44

afraser2k said:
That's my point though. A ban on guns doesn't solve the problem of gun crime, it increases it.

Legalisation of guns will only increase the number of guns in circulation. The self-defense aspect of gun ownership is *far* outweighed by the cancerous spread of firearms culture into our lives.

Ensure that guns remain illegal, and impose severe penalties for those who commit gun related crime - I'd have no problem with a mandatory life sentence for anyone who does such a thing.

RoboCod · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:48

squiffy said:
Blah.... ....blah

Lol, rolleyes! :rolleyes:

We NEED cars, please enlighten me why the US people "need" guns? For protection? I dont think so. If it is for recreational purposes then shooting ranges and gun alleys can stock their own guns and keep them on premises safe.

Fact - ban gun's = less gun ownership = fewer such awful incidents.

Got kids by any chance? If you did and you lived in a society where a lot of people owned a gun would you feel comfortable given all these incidents?

:rolleyes:

afraser2k said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm

I just look at our news about all the gun crime we have. We have a ban on guns in the UK and still have a major problem with gun crime. A ban on guns will only make a few people feel better for a few weeks until it happens again.

Our children are taking air rifles into school as well as knives and many other weapons. If children want to kill they'll still do it, no matter if it's a gun, knife, brick or other item used as a weapon.

And who are the people that use guns in our society? Loving husbands who do milk rounds in their local area? I think it would be safe to assume that gun ownership in this country leans towards those who are already on the wrong side of the law. The kind of people that shouldn't be owning a gun in the first place, namely Drug dealers and gang member's.

The point is, a lot of these school shooting's are by "normal" known people, fellow student's and Bob who lives around the corner!

Visage · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:52

Exactly - we will never defeat gun crime by adopting a 'If you cant beat them , join them' attitude.

We''l do it in the same way that we'll defeat any crime - by improving detection rates and using draconian punishments for those found guilty.

Make it clear that gun posession, after a given date, will incur a life sentence, and introduce an amnesty for people to hand in weapons.

afraser2k · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:56

Banning guns will only increase the amount of weapons sold on the black market or smuggled into the country, as has happened in the UK. If the ban was to come into force in the US then they'd see a similar situation that we have, only much worse due to the amount of weapons there. I think banning guns will only be a temporary solution to the problem in the US, we'll still see lots of shootings only this time illegal weapons instead of those from the home.

I just can't see how declaring a ban will do anything to solve their problem, especially after our own experiences.

squiffy · 3 Oct 2006 at 09:57

I think it would be safe to assume that gun ownership in this country leans towards those who are already on the wrong side of the law.

Are you talking about pre-ban, with legally purchased guns? If not :rolleyes:

My father owned a few guns, he was in the RAF and police force. Other members of the gun clubs/range were from the army or from civilian professions.

Usually I find people who have never used guns are been around sensible gun owners are ignorent and the ones most likely to throw their arms in disgust, similar thing to Christians and South Park.

Visage · 3 Oct 2006 at 10:03

afraser2k said:
Banning guns will only increase the amount of weapons sold on the black market or smuggled into the country, as has happened in the UK. If the ban was to come into force in the US then they'd see a similar situation that we have, only much worse due to the amount of weapons there. I think banning guns will only be a temporary solution to the problem in the US, we'll still see lots of shootings only this time illegal weapons instead of those from the home.

I just can't see how declaring a ban will do anything to solve their problem, especially after our own experiences.

It will make gun ownership less attractive, for a start - if you face a severe punishment for owning a gun then a lot of people would reconsider their posession of such a weapon....

Visage · 3 Oct 2006 at 10:04

squiffy said:
Are you talking about pre-ban, with legally purchased guns? If not My father owned a few guns, he was in the RAF and police force. Other members of the gun clubs/range were from the army or from civilian professions.

Usually I find people who have never used guns are been around sensible gun owners are ignorent and the ones most likely to throw their arms in disgust, similar thing to Christians and South Park.

I've been around guns, and fired them many times. I still realise that, with very few exceptions their primary aim is to incapacitate and kill.

They should be restricted to gun clubs, and not allowed off the premises.

RoboCod · 3 Oct 2006 at 10:09

squiffy said:
Are you talking about pre-ban, with legally purchased guns? If not My father owned a few guns, he was in the RAF and police force. Other members of the gun clubs/range were from the army or from civilian professions.

Usually I find people who have never used guns are been around sensible gun owners are ignorent and the ones most likely to throw their arms in disgust, similar thing to Christians and South Park.

Your arguement is unfounded though.

People who say a ban on guns wont do anything to cut gun crime, perhaps you are right, but we're not talking about gun crime in general, we're talking about some whacko walking into a school and blowing away a bunch of girls just because he got teased at school!

Of course people will smuggle gun's in, but who will these people be? Gangster's, drug dealers and criminals in general. These are people who feel they "need" a gun because of their way of life and if groups of gangs want to shoot it out between themselves then I'm happy for them to go ahead and waste eachother.

In this instance, and what seems to be more frequent now than ever, are your average Joe down the road who owns a gun because it is his consititutional right and because his mind has popped he decides to use his gun to blow away a group of innocent children!

You can't compare gun's to knives either. If this man didn't have access to gun's then I very much doubt he could have entered the school and caused so much destruction. The teacher and pupils were instantly held under hostage by use of firearm's. If he had used a knife the teacher/s could have attempted to defend themselves and the children!

afraser2k · 3 Oct 2006 at 10:14

Visage said:
It will make gun ownership less attractive, for a start - if you face a severe punishment for owning a gun then a lot of people would reconsider their posession of such a weapon....

How severe would do you think a suitable setence would be? In the UK at the moment possession of a handgun varies between 5-10 years yet look at the problem we still have.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30044-bx.htm

What would you think a suitable term would be for possession and/or using a gun in a crime?