Another school shooting in the US

estebanrey said:
Irrelevant. The cause was not the point but the viability of success in a country with liberal gun laws.

Whether your spree is driven by politically ideology and was planned or a heat of the moment random attack, the availability of powerful firearms is going to make your mission a lot more deadly.
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The cause is entirely the point (In this case)

The Breivic case should not be compared with other spree killers for the purposes of this debate.

"Illegal" Firearms are readily available pretty well everywhere. Breivic used "Legal" firearms in his assault because they were available to him, but with his degree of determination and commitment he would have had no real problem getting hold of "Illegal" ones had "legal" ones not been available.

This does not compare with the typical spree killer and certainly does not compare with this particular school shooting.
 
Evangelion said:
Malcolm Turnbull (Cabinet Minister in Australia's conservative Liberal Party) had some pithy words for Rupert Murdoch today:

Turnbull_v_Murdoch.jpg


:cool:
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Is that real? If so Fox News just lost 80% of it's viewers.
 
bitslice said:
Never gets old does it? :o
Both of these are comments on culture, America is not the UK,
if I had a gun and someone ****** me off then I'd still key their car instead.
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It doesn't really matter what you'd personally do - the point is we've got people just like the killer in this case living in the UK. We've had a similar massacre in the UK... we've taken steps to prevent it occurring again. (its so far been successful). Its not really rocket science, high school killings occurred before 1996, mass shootings have occurred in similar circumstances in other locations(Colorado Cineam etc..) where firearms could have been present - your deterrent argument is flawed.

Not quite the correlation you imply. Still bad though.
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You've got rather a lot of factors to consider... presenting a coloured map including undeveloped countries is rather an oversimplification of the issue.

The issue is with backing down from mass gun ownership which isn't going to happen, when they should be addressing the harder social issues.
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There isn't necessarily a need to back down from gun ownership but rather introduce sensible legislation to control the use of firearms... while tackling social deprivation might reduce gun violence in deprived inner city areas its rather a different issue to some mental middle class person going on a rampage - that can happen regardless of social inequality or funding of mental health provision as its happened in the USA, UK and across Europe.

Easier availability of firearms makes it easier for incidents like this to occur...

There is no real need for someone to own an assault rifle or semi-auto handgun such as a Glock or SIG - these weapons are designed for military/law enforcement use. I don't have an issue with a shotgun being kept in the home or a bolt action rifle being used for hunting... a legal requirement for these to be registered and kept securely would be fairly sensible too.

These weapons were available to be purchased legally and were not kept securely... I doubt the 20 yr old autistic loner would have been able to obtain these weapons in the UK (in spite of the fact illegal weapons are available over here). Sensible gun laws at a national level could have helped to prevent this...
 
bitslice said:
Not many gun owners are shot though are they? That sounds like a deterrent to me. Say you were a criminal, would you dare break into a house in Texas?
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So Texas has a very low rate of burglaries? Interesting. What are the stats?

I think its fairly daft to claim that gun ownership reduces crime - the USA has the highest percentage of incarcerated citizens on the planet does it not?
 
Orionaut said:
The assailants simply switched to using different weapons such as Machetes.
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There's no way you could inflict the same amount of damage in the heat of the moment using a knife or machete.

A directly comparable event in Japan, except with a knife, left 8 dead. A tradegy all the same, but fewer lives lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

Your argument is like refuting nuclear disarmament because they'll only use regular bombs anyway.
 
[TW]Fox;23375433 said:
the USA has the highest percentage of incarcerated citizens on the planet does it not?
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Yes, they have a huge amount of people behind bars, but there are a great many other factors involved there. According to Qi: 2,300,000 people. Shocking!


Tombo said:
Does a semi auto rifle hurt more than any other?
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No, but it can hurt more people in a shorter space of time than a firearm with a slower reloading mechanism. Especially when fed by high capacity magazines. Personally, I think civilian firearms should be limited to flintlocks!
 
Tombo said:
The posts on facebook by middle ages ignorant women were / are brilliant.
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The funny thing is is that it was the killers older Brother who 'liked' Mass Effect on Facebook. Some media outlets gave the wrong name out so the lynch mob automatically put 2 and 2 together.

The killer, Adam Lanza, didn't even have a Facebook account.

People can really be annoyingly stupid at times.
 
Tombo said:
Does a semi auto rifle hurt more than any other?
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If Raul Moat had access to an assault rifle then at least two more people would likely be dead...

Of course an assault rifle is going to do a lot of damage and yes a high velocity 5.56mm round is going to 'hurt' a lot more than say a 9mm shot from a pistol etc... higher velocity, more kinetic energy, more internal damage, the exit wound can be rather large... hit some bone and fragments of it will be spinning out the back of you too...

Police with pistols and a few shotguns trying to contain criminals armed with assault rifles:

 
A guy on a Youtube clip about gun control has posted this is response to one of my posts.

It's really scary what they are teaching their kids over there...

It's not the only thing, but it helps. Our Democracy is older than the UK, Swedish, German, French and Spanish democracy, so sorry if I don't necessarily trust your judgement. In fact we are pretty much the oldest functioning democracy
Why do you think dictators DO like gun control? Isn't that kind of obvious that it's another way to maintain power?
Let's move to a larger view. Why do you think countries maintain the right to bear arms? Should the Falklands disarm? Argentina thinks so.
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hurfdurf said:
This is a really really dumb comment.
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Only if you are ignorant enough to fail to detect the sarcastic manner in which it was meant to be read. The point is whether it's a hand-gun / semi-automatic rifle / fully automatic machine gun, they all have the power to kill as easily as eachother.

Hence banning semi-auto/full-auto weapons is largely moot if you want to tackle the problem.
 
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