Soldato
Oh yeah. I mean back in England I feel so vulnerable not having a gun to defend myself from the immediate threat of a gun massacre.
Another school shooting in the US
- Thread starter .Griff.
- Start date
Oh yeah. I mean back in England I feel so vulnerable not having a gun to defend myself from the immediate threat of a gun massacre.
Associate
I'm wondering why Americans feel they are protected if they keep a gun in the house, considering you can get shot pretty much everywhere in the USA.
Of course, there is the point about the amount of guns in the USA are too many to abolish, but I personally think this is a redundant argument. I think this because of this formula:
idiots ^ guns = death
Thus, it can be said, that with an increase in guns and idiots, there will only be more death for people with lots of guns.
Yes, criminals would prevail in the short term but that would change with time and people would be far, far safer in the long term if there is strict gun control.\
Edit: To add, what's easier to remove, idiots or guns?
Of course, there is the point about the amount of guns in the USA are too many to abolish, but I personally think this is a redundant argument. I think this because of this formula:
idiots ^ guns = death
Thus, it can be said, that with an increase in guns and idiots, there will only be more death for people with lots of guns.
Yes, criminals would prevail in the short term but that would change with time and people would be far, far safer in the long term if there is strict gun control.\
Edit: To add, what's easier to remove, idiots or guns?
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Man of Honour
Depends what the stock is made from and how hard you get hit with it, I suspect my mattock would hurt a hell of a lot more.
If you mean the rounds being discharged; lower calibre but higher rate of fire than traditional hunting or historical military weapons. High velocity for penetration but lower accuracy at longer range. This was due to combat range being taken into account in the design to make the weapon and ammunition lighter. Lighter weapons and ammunition in combat allow greater capacity of ammunition to be carried and less fatigue for the soldier from weight carried.
Semi and full auto weapons have no place in any civilians hands for any reason, ever.
Caporegime
Exactly
Michael Moore had it spot on with this tweet
https://twitter.com/MMFlint/status/280442682256535553
and this one
https://twitter.com/MMFlint/status/279656350194233344
Other countries have violet video games, Other countries have violet Movies, other countries have people who listen to Marilyn Manson, other countries have large gun ownership figures so why is America the one with the problem ?
It all comes down a culture. And if they are truely to stop another Columbine, Another Virginia Tech, another Sandy Hook, they need to change that culture.
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Soldato
Which they wont ever be able to do, so I fully expect another one of these in the next year.
Caporegime
Agreed.
There have been 31 school shootings since columbine, including Virginia Tech in 2007 which had a higher death toll than this one. And this is just going to be another one of many.
There have been 31 school shootings since columbine, including Virginia Tech in 2007 which had a higher death toll than this one. And this is just going to be another one of many.
Soldato
It amazes me that people still argue for guns.
I'm usually willing to concede that these issues aren't black or white. There are usually good arguments on both sides of the debate and where people feel so strongly either way, minds aren't changed anyway so getting involved is my own mistake..
But I think that this issue is SO BLACK AND WHITE that it completely boggles the mind.
All the stats I've come across suggest that tighter gun laws would reduce gun deaths and furthermore, wouldn't increase any other crimes like stabbings etc. You don't even need stats to tell you this. It's basic common sense.
I've not yet heard a valid argument for keeping them.
I'm usually willing to concede that these issues aren't black or white. There are usually good arguments on both sides of the debate and where people feel so strongly either way, minds aren't changed anyway so getting involved is my own mistake..
But I think that this issue is SO BLACK AND WHITE that it completely boggles the mind.
All the stats I've come across suggest that tighter gun laws would reduce gun deaths and furthermore, wouldn't increase any other crimes like stabbings etc. You don't even need stats to tell you this. It's basic common sense.
I've not yet heard a valid argument for keeping them.
Soldato
Sadly this ^. I can't see it ever happening ever!. 3 days after their worst school massacre they sell the most guns sold in 24hours breaking a 20 year old record. It's complete madness, tragic and I don't get it. It's hard to consider the USA a civilised society with their morbid gun fascination.
That's because the US public are plagued by fear through a combination of news media & government.
No surprise then after a shocking tradegy like this they run out to stock up on more guns to make themselves feel safe.
How many school shootings were committed by already known criminals? Very few if any I'm willing to bet.
The majority are deranged individuals who steal their parents/friends gun, or have acquired them legally.
except they don't...
no it really isn't moot at all...
is banning anti aircraft weapons largely moot? how about tanks?
do you honestly think all weapons are as deadly as each other?
Seems the westboro scumbags are thinking about going up to picket the school.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...war-westboro-baptist-church-article-1.1222014
Suppose they need some more media attention after they started to get ignored a while back.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...war-westboro-baptist-church-article-1.1222014
Suppose they need some more media attention after they started to get ignored a while back.
nah Piers is a numpty... despite being on the right side IMO he is completely ignoring and not even attempting to address what are, on the face of it, fairly legitimate points being raised by the pro-gun guy on that show...
its just dumbed down TV/news and he's achieved nothing with that clip other than say things that people who already agree with him will like to hear... anyone on the fence or who disagrees is going to pick up on the points being made by the pro gun guy which Piers is completely ignoring
In the hands of a civilian firing at unarmed civilians any gun is deadly obviously.
yes, that is obvious and doesn't answer the question. we're already taking it as a given that the guns we're talking about are all deadly - the question was to what extent?
is it not also obvious that some are potentially more deadly than others, are capable of inflicting more damage and doing so on a wider scale?
I understand they're all passionate about this subject, but honestly? It was like a school debate, kids screaming over each other and not allowing each other to speak. A little bit difficult to listen to.
No need for me to get indepth here. I don't like guns. Guns should not be legal. Get rid of them!
Caporegime
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Very few people argue for guns, most people argue that guns AREN'T the fundamental problem in these situations. Also there are no stats that deal with gun bans in america, therefore none of those stats are relevant.
If guns weren't around easily in the US and this guy still wanted to kill those people he could have done a whole crapload of things to kill all those people, had he gone around with gas cans, or molotov cocktails smashing windows and burning the school, every single person inside might have died, you can lock thick doors and hide and run away from someone with a gun, you can't escape when surrounded completely by fire, and a door won't do anything for you either.
The problem is these incidents are jumped all over by anti-gun nuts, pushing an agenda, which is irrelevant. The issue here is WHAT PUSHES PEOPLE TO WANT TO MASSACRE PEOPLE, not if guns should be banned, one has NOTHING to do with the other. Anti gun lobbyists as any other lobbyists are jumping all over a terrible situation and making it about THEM, not about the kids and not about the reason behind situations like this.
NO ONE on earth should be talking about anti gun laws, ban every gun in the states, make some magic machine to find every gun and make it not work....... people will still go mental and massacre people, THAT is the problem and THAT is all that should be being talked about.
Getting rid of guns wouldn't have stopped this guy, it would have made him choose an alternate method of murder. Trying to find out and change the fundamental reason that america seems so prone to these incidents is the goal, and that problem is being overshadowed by every blinkered person who looks at the gun, not the act, not what happened, just how it happened.
People still do burn places down in america, people still do go on rampages in cars, people blow themselves up, removing guns wouldn't remove the problem underneath the guns.
The sheer volume of guns in america and the actual lack of incidents suggests highly that guns AREN'T the problem. I think they should ban guns but realise its an unhill struggle, half the country wants them, and the industry is huge which means politically its not going to happen.
AFAIK Obama has a awful record on guns and getting almost nothing done in his first 4 years. Politics in america is run in big business's interest, killing an industry and losing 10k's of jobs.... its a non starter.
So while half the world discusses getting rid of guns, A, it WILL NOT HAPPEN, B its NOT WHAT CAUSED THIS, and C is stopping people trying to fix what did cause this.
Sensible people aren't pro gun, they are anti wasting time discussing guns.
dont schools have sprinklers and fire exits in america..
ive not looked for the news but ive never heard of many mass killings in america of arson..
non in fact not to say it doesnt happen but im sure guns are the bigger killer..
i feel a lot safer knowing very few people own a gun in the uk but im pretty sure americans are a lot more polite probably because they think if they wernt, they'd get shot.
around 500 dead by arson in 2006, i dont think that figure changed much from 2006..
over 8,000 dead by shootings in 2012, something tells me guns are the biggest killers in america
ive not looked for the news but ive never heard of many mass killings in america of arson..
non in fact not to say it doesnt happen but im sure guns are the bigger killer..
i feel a lot safer knowing very few people own a gun in the uk but im pretty sure americans are a lot more polite probably because they think if they wernt, they'd get shot.
around 500 dead by arson in 2006, i dont think that figure changed much from 2006..
over 8,000 dead by shootings in 2012, something tells me guns are the biggest killers in america
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Associate
seems to me that is more of a mental health issue.
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