Another school shooting in the US

If they wont change the law give the idiots the weapons that were common when the law was brought in, that would be a good start, just see a guy at the mall shouting for everyone to give him a minute while he reloads between shots.

What kind of sick members of society shout we need more guns to stop this kind of thing, oh the NRA do.
 
Just saw this on the news. Terrible tragedy. The most awful part is that nothing is likely to change from this. Americans will still cling to their rights to bear arms, even as unhinged nutjobs blow away their kids with guns they probably picked up at Wallmart.
 
cymatty said:
As terrible as this is banning guns wont help, if someone wants kill on a mass scale they will. :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910
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This is bad logic and your quote from the website is taken out of context. The 22 killed by knives was over X time and not in one attack.

Banning guns and getting the American's to adopt our gun laws would help America and it's long term gun problem.

As other posters have explained, access to firearms allows a person to kill really easy, this is why Knights, bows and crossbows went out of fashion when guns started to be used on the battlefield. Remove access to firearms and killing becomes a lot harder to do. You only need to look at Norway shooting to see how one man with firearms can kill so many, he had 77 kills.

Try killing 77 people with a knife or a sword. I can tell you from my Kendo training that attacking a person for two hours with a Shinai (bamboo wooden sword), you feel your arms almost dropping off, you that worn out.

I think it's about time that Schools in the US start locking down and have armed guards because THIS will happen again.
 
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estebanrey said:
An old work colleague of mine has just been sent down for 30 years for brutally murdering a woman. This chap was as 'normal' as you could be when I knew him, I would have described him as a nice bloke. He had no criminal convictions or trouble with the police but just went out one night, got drunk, and (in his words) had a moment of being possessed.
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Interesting. Possession is real, people are particularly susceptible when they're drunk or on drugs. It's outwith most peoples rationalisation construct but it actually happens.
 
Once again the US' ridiculous attitude towards guns makes innocent people pay the ultimate price. It is crazy that any civilised society would allow such widespread firearm ownership.
 
estebanrey said:
As has been said the difference is a bomb (for example) requires time, a knowledge of explosives and there's a decent risk of it failing. That means it's impossible for someone to snap and just make a bomb, you can however just snap and grab your firearm.
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What about setting a fire to a block of flats, or running people over in a car. If you just snap and want to kill people, guns are not the only option, just look at any country with gun control laws and the number of murders that still take place with stuff other than guns.

I'm not trying to make a point for or against gun control, my point is that each time these sort of stories come up the focus is often too much on the gun and not the person using the gun, or any number of other factors that resulted in this.
 
reflux said:
Once again the US' ridiculous attitude towards guns makes innocent people pay the ultimate price. It is crazy that any civilised society would allow such widespread firearm ownership.
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its not exactly hard to buy guns on the black market, if someone has the heart set on a mass shooting they can get a gun regardless.

its simply too late in the day to ban guns in america, there are so many guns out there its ridiculous... the black market would grow ten fold, people would still have access to guns if they wanted to get them.
 
Dist said:
I'm not trying to make a point for or against gun control, my point is that each time these sort of stories come up the focus is often too much on the gun and not the person using the gun, or any number of other factors that resulted in this.
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It's easier to blame an inanimate object that can be banned or controlled rather than look into the real reasons that people take the object and use it for bad. People like easy answers.
 
Dist said:
What about setting a fire to a block of flats, or running people over in a car. If you just snap and want to kill people, guns are not the only option, just look at any country with gun control laws and the number of murders that still take place with stuff other than guns.

I'm not trying to make a point for or against gun control, my point is that each time these sort of stories come up the focus is often too much on the gun and not the person using the gun, or any number of other factors that resulted in this.
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Again, how many attacks and murders have there been with setting fire to blocks?

The car thing happened few months ago in the UK with that white van, but that's the first time I heard it against the insane number of gun attacks on Schools.

YOU ARE trying to make a point against gun control.

People snap and lose it all the time and letting people have such easy access to firearms is just asking for trouble. Look at history, look at the news, how many people have been law abiding ciztiens untill they snap and lose it?

Few years ago, that farmer in the countryside, lost his job, lost his money and killed his family and set fire to his own house. People change, weapon's don't.
 
insideline said:
its not exactly hard to buy guns on the black market, if someone has the heart set on a mass shooting they can get a gun regardless.

its simply too late in the day to ban guns in america, there are so many guns out there its ridiculous... the black market would grow ten fold, people would still have access to guns if they wanted to get them.
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It wouldn't be an overnight success story, no. It would take a long time and lot of hard work, but it could work.

They could offer amensty programmes for anyone who turned in their firearms to local police. Hell, they could offer to buy peoples guns off them to get them out of the publics hands if thats what it took.
 
Dist said:
What about setting a fire to a block of flats, or running people over in a car. If you just snap and want to kill people, guns are not the only option, just look at any country with gun control laws and the number of murders that still take place with stuff other than guns.
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But in those case nearly everyone involved at least had a chance of avoiding the attack. You can out run a fire and get out of the way of an incoming car but a gun is like a life and death switch. It's probably the only weapon that can kill someone instantly without warning from range (which to a someone thinking about committing an act like this is a pretty powerful tool)
 
Craig1981 said:
It wouldn't be an overnight success story, no. It would take a long time and lot of hard work, but it could work.

They could offer amensty programmes for anyone who turned in their firearms to local police. Hell, they could offer to buy peoples guns off them to get them out of the publics hands if thats what it took.
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Exactly, also the gun manufacturers in America require the obsession with guns to be able to produce so many firearms.

If you halved gun sales in America, the amount makers would be prepared to produce would also drop. It's not like they'd carry on making them for a non-existent market.

Once gun manufacturing drops, so will their availability.

There are plenty of military weapons the public doesn't have access to, like nuclear weapons, fighter jets, tanks and yet none of them have fallen into the hands of criminals so the argument that criminal would all have them is not really true. It's about manufacturer and availability.
 
estebanrey said:
As has been said the difference is a bomb (for example) requires time, a knowledge of explosives and there's a decent risk of it failing. That means it's impossible for someone to snap and just make a bomb, you can however just snap and grab your firearm.

The problem with the American mentality is they often talk about criminals as if they are a different species than the 'good guys', they don't think that anyone, no matter how good they are, can just snap and go postal at any time without warning.
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Yup, its like crazy difficult to grab alcohol, cloth/rags and a lighter.... oh wait, its not.

Also your assuming that the majority of these incidents aren't premeditated and planned.

"Impossible" to snap and kill people en masse easily without a gun is a massive over reaching statement that is patently false.

They use guns in the Us because they have access to them, if they didn't, the people who go crazy and decide to kill people WOULD use other weapons and be JUST as successful, maybe more so.

Imagine if this guy didn't have a gun, and decided to go to his local gas station, fill up a bunch of gas cans, go over to the school, set alight to a gas can at every exit and watch the entire building go up with EVERYONE inside being killed.

People are focusing on the guns because they are there and thats whats used, the guns don't cause the crime and there are a ridiculous number of other ways to kill people without much planning. Someone could simply drive through a fence and over dozens of kids on the playground, petrol in a smallish bottle taken into an office building, someone sprays it around a bit and in stairwells and sets a fire... is unfortunately ridiculously easy and could be incredibly deadly. With an office block a single man with a gun would be hard pressed to go floor to floor and murder everyone in a 20 storey building, with 30 seconds he may be able to start a fire that kills everyone though.

We like to PRETEND that without guns, these tragedies wouldn't happen, because we like to PRETEND that it isn't true that anyone we ever bump into could be a crazy guy on a bad day who could kill us and/or everyone we care about.

If we demonize guns, because we don't have guns in the UK, WE feel safe because we PRETEND the chances of mass killings is stupidly low as it would be really difficult without guns. The quite un-nerving, scary reality is, anyone can kill a bunch of people anywhere with very little forethought and with relative ease.
 
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