Another stupid purchasing decision

Lopéz said:
Yes there are piles of these things in Italy (I didn't buy one there as the Italians traditionally do not look after small cars in any way.
Also, 80% of the mechanical parts are the same as a Punto Sporting, which is a big help.

Lancias are/were still imported into Austria but in very small numbers.



Ok so that sounds like here then. Some stuff is flat out not allowed, other things have to be either notified or inspected (mostly, inspected :rolleyes:) and added to the car's logbook.

Broadly speaking Austria does not really have a car culture, outside of extremely well maintained classics which are also far from abundant.

Cars are seen by the overwhelming majority as a tool which one needs to perform certain tasks and functions, and to have anything that is bright/loud/modified/fast is considered quite antisocial and an infringement on the life enjoyment of normal people.
Taxation also puts such cars in the "WTF" running cost category so people really don't bother.

For example, you just do not see hot hatches here - I have not seen a single Civic Type-R, or a Focus RS/ST, or a Megane Trophy/Cup/Whatever of any description, in 4 years of coming here regularly and then 2 years living here. Not one!

Never seen a 205GTI, Clio 172, Yaris GR4..... sure, these cars do exist and can be purchased in Austria, but I have never seen one which is so different to what I am used to.
Austria is an ocean of monochrome VW/Audi/Mercedes and Skodas.
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In a collision, there you are. In an explosion, where are you?

what???? Please explain
 
Diagro said:
In a collision, there you are. In an explosion, where are you?

what???? Please explain
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It's an old fashioned expression from the South Wales valleys. It means it's one thing to be in an unpleasant situation where you at least know what's going on (a collision) but an entirely different one being completely blindsided by an unexpected and catastrophic event (an explosion)

My old boss used to say it all the time, he had an arsenal of phrases like this.
 
mattpj said:
honestly I thought this was some kind of Datsun or Mitsubishi - then when I saw it was a Lancia it instantly became a beautiful car :D
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Yeah this is what I went through.

It's ugly
Yeah but it's a Lancia
It's definitely a bit weird looking at the last
Aye but, it's a Lancia innit?
It's not that bad to look at
Yes, it's a Lancia

:D

Waiting for a reply from the Finanzamt to my "can I pay you the money I owe you please?" enquiry.

In the mean time, I've

Replaced the boot lock (it was jammed, would be an MOT failure here)

Replaced the rear wiper (also jammed, also an MOT failure here)

Bought some winter wheels (Winter tyres, when conditions warrant them, which is fairly often between October and April, are required here)

Replaced the CD player with a Bluetooth unit

Ordered new mats to replace the worn ones

Drove it to Slovakia at the weekend, no issues. My mother in law's only comments were "Why would anyone buy a car that only has two doors"
 
Sounds like Belgium, possibly worse, but most likely similarly frustrating.
In the old days before the internet (2019 in this case), you had to physically go to the customs office in Brussels to import the car and pay 3 cents (cash only) to receive the document, which needed stamping at the MOT (you must MOT an imported car, without exception), followed by insurance.
Then you could send off for a number plate, and a rear one arrives in the post and you have to pay the postman €30 cash. (You have to make your own one yourself).

Belgium is very similar to Austria - very high used car prices, little in the way of fancy stuff due to insane taxes & insurance and very strict modification laws. Also requires an EU Certificate of Conformity. At least now you can get your import form online now!

@Lopéz which country did you import it from?
 
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mjt said:
Sounds like Belgium, possibly worse, but most likely similarly frustrating.
In the old days before the internet (2019 in this case), you had to physically go to the customs office in Brussels to import the car and pay 3 cents (cash only) to receive the document, which needed stamping at the MOT (you must MOT an imported car, without exception), followed by insurance.
Then you could send off for a number plate, and a rear one arrives in the post and you have to pay the postman €30 cash. (You have to make your own one yourself).

Belgium is very similar to Austria - very high used car prices, little in the way of fancy stuff due to insane taxes & insurance and very strict modification laws. Also requires an EU Certificate of Conformity. At least now you can get your import form online now!

@Lopéz which country did you import it from?
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Yes this all sounds very familiar and similarly frustrating.

This car is originally from Poland.

No response from the Finanzamt from my request to pay the NoVA tax, so I have just booked an appointment.

On their website it says that cars between 10 and 30 years old must be valued independently by a "Car Expert" whatever one of those is - it is not allowed to provide your own estimation of value.

I contacted the 3 listed approved "Car Experts" in Vienna - 1 does not serve private customers, 1 is retired and the other said he was not interested :D

I then did a bit of searching, and found a case (on the Finanzamt's own website :D) that sets precedent, stating that the NoVA is an "honesty based tax" and that the taxpayer is responsible for giving an appropriate vehicle valuation and that the state cannot refuse this valuation. If they doubt the credibility of the valuation they can subsequently investigate and take you to court, but they must accept your number.

No idea how that will pan out in reality so I have printed off the case and will take it with me and see what happens when I tell them I do not have a valuation from a court sworn "Car Expert"
 
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Lopéz said:
Honestly, I will never learn.

Next steps - see if I can convince Austria that EU law really is law and not just advice, and that they have to accept a foreign MOT to register it here.
Ha, good luck with that!
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In Spain its better to just get a locally registered car and ditch the UK registered one, its just too much red tape/hassle
 
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Diddums said:
This is currently my favourite thread in motors, do keep us posted please :D
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I am to please :D

This is all just a dry run for when I import my 42 year old XR3 at the end of the year, which is going to be a BARREL OF LAUGHS I am sure!

I did some scary maths yesterday

Amount spent on going to Poland and getting the car back to Austria
  • €28.99 - Flight
  • €17.64 - First Class Train to the bloke's town from Warsaw
  • €2.00 - Local tram in Warsaw
  • €2.04 - Local bus in Warsaw
  • €3.76 - Can of Monster and some crisps
  • €2.55 - Another can of Monster and some more crisps
  • €11.46 - McDonald's on the way home
  • €124.96 - Fuel
  • €12.33 - Czech Motorway Vignette
  • €11.50 - Austrian Motorway Vignette
  • €217.23 TOTAL

Registration related BS - this number will GROW ENORMOUSLY
  • €19.99 - Austrian registration plate holders (Polish plates are smaller)
  • €77.70 - 1 Month Parking in an underground garage (can't park on the street without a permit, can't get a permit on a foreign registered car)
  • €180.00 - Datenauszug aus der Gehnemigungsdatenbank (A bit of paper from Fiat that says yes, this is indeed a Lancia Y)
  • €277.69 TOTAL - WILL INCREASE

Stuff it might/will fail a future Austrian MOT on so might as well buy it now and try and minimise the chance of failure - this number will also GROW ENORMOUSLY when it goes for the Austrian Pickerl
  • €45.12 - Rear wiper motor (EXTORTIONATE postage costs for this, more than the item!)
  • €39.68 - Boot lock (EQUALLY EXTORTIONATE postage costs for this from Italy, again more than the item!)
  • €11.27 - Windscreen wiper
  • €10.07 - Warning Triangle
  • €11.09 - First Aid Kit
  • €10.66 - High Vis vests
  • €6.40 - H1 Bulbs
  • €35.99 - Lambda Sensor
  • €170.28 TOTAL - WILL INCREASE

Stuff I just fancied doing
  • €29.22 - MP3/USB/Bluetooth Head Unit
  • €31.00 - Floor Mats
  • €60.22 TOTAL - WILL INCREASE

Add that the the cost of the car itself and I have already spent eleventy million Euros and I still can't legally drive it :D
 
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I went to Stuttgart to look at a VW T3. I was genuinely interested, but the thought of getting it back and then if I was insured driving it in the UK without it be registered etc was just too much for me. It was too pricey too really so I was a blessing in disguise I guess
 
BS Dave said:
I went to Stuttgart to look at a VW T3. I was genuinely interested, but the thought of getting it back and then if I was insured driving it in the UK without it be registered etc was just too much for me. It was too pricey too really so I was a blessing in disguise I guess
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The UK must have the lowest second-hand prices in Europe, so I wouldn't even consider importing something from the continent unless it's something exceptionally rare. You can add to that import duty due to Brexit and it really doesn't make any sense.
Thankfully importing stuff and registering it in the UK is a doddle compared to some countries. Look how many people on here import things from Japan with very little fuss!
 
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No response from the Finanzamt from my request to pay the NoVA tax, so I have just booked an appointment.

On their website it says that cars between 10 and 30 years old must be valued independently by a "Car Expert" whatever one of those is - it is not allowed to provide your own estimation of value.

I contacted the 3 listed approved "Car Experts" in Vienna - 1 does not serve private customers, 1 is retired and the other said he was not interested :D

I then did a bit of searching, and found a case (on the Finanzamt's own website :D) that sets precedent, stating that the NoVA is an "honesty based tax" and that the taxpayer is responsible for giving an appropriate vehicle valuation and that the state cannot refuse this valuation. If they doubt the credibility of the valuation they can subsequently investigate and take you to court, but they must accept your number.
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Today was Ministry of Finance day.

Last Monday I sent them an e-request to process my NoVA payment. I sent them the Data Extract from Fiat, and the two necessary tax forms, but I forgot to attach the receipt proving how much I paid for the car.
After getting no reply and booking an appointment I arrived today.

This is how the conversation went (but in German obviously)

"Hi, I need to pay the NoVA, sorry my German isn't great but I understand most things"

SHRUG "You submitted your application in Finanzonline, or?"

"Yes, but no reply"

"Yeah, well" SHRUG

"You have to much to make, or?"

"Exactly. It's 126 Euros, have you got cash?"

"Yes"

"Don't pay me, sign this paper, take it to the 3rd floor, pay, then come back"

/went to the 3rd floor, paid, got my receipt stamped.

"Hi, it's paid"

"Good, I just need a copy of your ID"

"Passport ok?"

"It will do"

"There you go, done. You can register your car. Bye"


No request for a valuation report. No request for an "MOT". No request for a purchase receipt. Nothing!

They even have a poster on her office door listing all the documents you need and she did not ask me for even 30% of them :D

Gotta love bureaucracy!
 
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And as a preview of the next thrilling episode:

Now the car is officially imported, and the NoVA is paid, it can be legally registered. It must be insured first, and then registered (number plates here do not stay with the vehicle for life, vehicles get a new registration number with every change of ownership)

To perform this registration, aside from forking out over 200 Euros, I need to provide all the documentation I've slowly been assembling.
One of those documents is the MOT and of course I have a Polish MOT not an Austrian one, and I would like to get the thing Austrian registered ASAP so needing an Austrian MOT could be a hurdle.

So today I email bombed six different Vehicle Registration offices and hopefully I will have some yes/no answers back tomorrow!
 
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L4.png


Do you need anyone to sit on your gear stick and tell you your speed?

There's even a place on the right of the dash for them to put their foot.

edit....sorry it's an air vent.
 
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In all seriousness, why? What possible redeeming features does your Lancia Ypsilon have?
Get a Lupo GTI or something. I saw a few for sale in Austria for the bargain price of €10-15k ;)
 
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I dunno really. I just fancied something a bit different. I know I've joked about the car here but it's genuinely in fantastic condition inside and out and drives really well.

I'm also a glutton for punishment and wanted to see how this whole import process really works here and if it was as much of a ball ache as it looks on paper (or worse, if it was even more)

Plus buying a car, unseen, from the wilds of Poland and then driving it 950km home seemed like a fun little adventure (and it was!)
 
Lopéz said:
I dunno really. I just fancied something a bit different. I know I've joked about the car here but it's genuinely in fantastic condition inside and out and drives really well.

I'm also a glutton for punishment and wanted to see how this whole import process really works here and if it was as much of a ball ache as it looks on paper (or worse, if it was even more)

Plus buying a car, unseen, from the wilds of Poland and then driving it 950km home seemed like a fun little adventure (and it was!)
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Fair enough. Enjoy :D
 
Fantastic replies from the Registration firms by the way - all were sent the exact same question, word for word.

"Hi, I've imported a car from Poland, all the import procedures are complete so I need to now insure and register it. Can I do that with a Polish MOT or must it be an Austrian one?"

Response 1:

"Good day.
If the vehicle has never been registered in Austria, it would still have to be entered into the Austrian database by the general importer."

Yeah, not the question.

Response 2:

"Dear Customer,
According to your information, there is nothing wrong with this; you can use these documents to register the vehicle or have it insured.
We also ask you to translate the purchase contract into German"

Response 3:

"For approval we require an Austrian report in accordance with Section 57a. Unfortunately, we cannot accept a Polish report. The other documents should be correct. The insurance can then be taken out directly with us.
If the vehicle was insured abroad, we need confirmation of the period and whether there was any damage in German or English."

Response 4:

"We'd love to create an offer for you.
To do this, I will need the following information from you, which I will forward to a supervisor in your area:
First and Last Name:
Birth date:
Postal code:
Location: Vienna
Telephone number:
Email address:
Contact request (email or telephone):

Notes on insurance coverage:
For which area (car, residential, life, health, commercial,...) do you want an offer: motor vehicle insurance"

Yeah again..... not what I asked, was it?

Response 5:

"Hello,
You are welcome to insure and register the vehicle with us
Please bring proof of insurance with you when registering.
Thank you"

Unconvinced they read the question.

Does anyone actually read emails past the first line?
 
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