'Anti' Isalm cartoons....

[Arcade Fire]

It don't sound like that to me. What the first article is saying is that in order to minimalise the complaints which seemed to happen with the pancakes they are dropping the crosses so as not to offend people and make them complain.

I think it's madness. And i love the statement on "middle class whites". What makes you think that this is being done by "middle class whites".

I think that this is one for another thread. I should probably justify my clichéd comment about the middle-class whites, though. The reason I said that is because there doesn't seem to be any reason to believe that anything more than a tiny minority of people are actually offended by hot cross buns, and yet despite this there seems to be a reaction from local councils - which are largely comprised of middle-class white men. Read the comment from a Muslim leader in the Telegraph article - it says it better than I could. That's the last I'll say about it in this thread, though.

 

[RaohNS]

Firstly, that deliberately publishing cartoons mocking the holocaust is stupid.

However, I think that there's a distinct difference between our attitudes towards cartoons that offend Jews, and cartoons that offend Muslims. It seems that Jews aren't fair game, whilst Muslims are. I can only suggest that this is a response to the suffering that the Jews faced in the 1930s and 1940s. Laughing at Muslims is apparently alright though - even going so far as to suggest that they're all terrorists or that their religion is one of evil.

OK Based on your first comment... why are Muslims carrying the "Prepare for the REAL Holocaust" placards?

Jews are fair game AF, and they have been on the receiving end of hatred since the year dot (Remember the Egyptians and the Hebrews? Jewish TExt=Hebrew Hebrews=Jews etc etc) You mean the suffering the Jews endured from the earliest years right up to now too? Jews are still persecuted very much in the world today.

Islam has more than its fair share of terrorists though AF, as i've stated Islam has commit more terrorists acts in the last 10years than all other terror groups combined, and likewise Islam has more terror factions than all the worlds terror groups combined! Palestine alone has many more times than Europe.

>| Raoh |<

 

[Arcade Fire]

OK Based on your first comment... why are Muslims carrying the "Prepare for the REAL Holocaust" placards?

Because they're stupid? I don't know, and it's not my job to speculate as to why some idiots say the things they do.

Islam has more than its fair share of terrorists though AF, as i've stated Islam has commit more terrorists acts in the last 10years than all other terror groups combined, and likewise Islam has more terror factions than all the worlds terror groups combined! Palestine alone has many more times than Europe.

Islam hasn't committed any terrorist acts. A lot of terrorist acts have been committed by people claiming to be acting in the name of Islam, but that's different altogether, and you shouldn't let your perception of a largely peaceful and benign religion (albeit one with many flaws) be dictated by a small number of extremists.

As to why there are so many more terrorists who are also Muslims than any other religious faction, it would probably be more useful to consider the environment that they live in and why it might give rise to people feeling that they have to commit acts of terror.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to justify terrorism. I'm trying (badly) to explain it, as I have this perverse belief that in order to stop something, you first have to understand it.

 

[VIRII]

Firstly, that deliberately publishing cartoons mocking the holocaust is stupid.

However, I think that there's a distinct difference between our attitudes towards cartoons that offend Jews, and cartoons that offend Muslims. It seems that Jews aren't fair game, whilst Muslims are. I can only suggest that this is a response to the suffering that the Jews faced in the 1930s and 1940s. Laughing at Muslims is apparently alright though - even going so far as to suggest that they're all terrorists or that their religion is one of evil.

I disagree. There is a world of difference between making fun of the murder and execution of millions of people in death camps and a cartoon that points out that Islam is resorting to bombs.
One is making fun of suffering which is always inappropriate. The other is a cheap political point with more than a grain of truth in it.

 

[Arcade Fire]

If a cartoon was published in this country that depicted Jews as ugly, hook-nosed, money-obsessed scrooges, then there would be uproar. That has nothing to do with the holocaust.

However, to publish a cartoon that portrays all Muslims as terrorists and suggests that Islam is the root cause of terrorism is okay, because it's just 'free speech'. Hmm.

 

[VIRII]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/03/16/nbuns16.xml

Again, it seems as though middle-class whites are perceiving an offense where none exists.

http://www.york.gov.uk/cgi-bin/wn_document.pl?type=3293

Or perhaps its just conservative newspapers like the Telegraph tryign to kick up a fuss where there really isn't any story at all? How embarassingly pathetic.



vv Try thirteen posts back

Lost me again. A number of labour controlled councils ban hot cross buns in schools becauseof received complaints and it is white middle class conservatives causing the problem ..... uh yeah right.

 

[VIRII]

If a cartoon was published in this country that depicted Jews as ugly, hook-nosed, money-obsessed scrooges, then there would be uproar. That has nothing to do with the holocaust.

However, to publish a cartoon that portrays all Muslims as terrorists and suggests that Islam is the root cause of terrorism is okay, because it's just 'free speech'. Hmm.

Would there be? I don't think so. Would there be demos similar to those that we've seen so far? Nope.
Do Islamic publications regularly publish cartoons such as you've described? Yes.
Hmmm.

Besides has Iran decided to portay jews as scroungers or as peopel deserving the holocaust hmmm.

 

[RaohNS]

Because they're stupid? I don't know, and it's not my job to speculate as to why some idiots say the things they do.

Exactly... they are stupid, where are the mass outrages and Muslims marching against what they are saying? You watch BBC Breakfast where they went to get the reactions of Muslims at a Mosque? Not very nice i seem to remember: "This is Islam, they have offended Islam and every (really all of them?) Muslim is very angry and upset about this depiction, and they have done this as a consequence"

Islam hasn't committed any terrorist acts. A lot of terrorist acts have been committed by people claiming to be acting in the name of Islam, but that's different altogether, and you shouldn't let your perception of a largely peaceful and benign religion (albeit one with many flaws) be dictated by a small number of extremists.

How can that be... many Muslim Leaders dont apologise for actions by "minority groups". But when an article is published... death threats, shootings/assassinations/Fatwa's letter bombs, marches, placards inciting death to the Kafir/Infidel/Unbeliever/Non Muslim. My perception AF is drawn from the world around me... if i see 100Muslim Homicide bombers getting on buses and blowing school children to smithereens, i come to the conclusion that there must be a problem somewhere... how many and who carried out 7/7... it was apparently 4 People... and these people were Muslims. What you need to remember is the days of the IRA are over now, now Muslims are in the limelight as they are the people that pose more, or a more serious risk to our lives and security. As i've said Islam has a little too many extremists than any other religion.

As to why there are so many more terrorists who are also Muslims than any other religious faction, it would probably be more useful to consider the environment that they live in and why it might give rise to people feeling that they have to commit acts of terror.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to justify terrorism. I'm trying (badly) to explain it, as I have this perverse belief that in order to stop something, you first have to understand it.

Yes as usual its the Jewish problem The Jews this the Jews that... its much easier to blame Jews than look at internal problems and rather than stop and think, they think its better to "Die in the name of Allah"

Terrorism comes from all routes, but if there are that many oppressed Muslims across the world. Why not say... why are we oppressed? Then look to the leadership... say its a dictatorship/Mullah leadership. Change it. Then say why arent we prospering, we arent allowed capitalism... Problem.. Islam is not a fan of capitalism, thats where you hit the problem, many of the Muslims world flaws come as a direct consequence of their religion i.e. stoning women, the Jizyah for non muslims, Shariah law etc etc

>| Raoh |<

 

[RaohNS]

If a cartoon was published in this country that depicted Jews as ugly, hook-nosed, money-obsessed scrooges, then there would be uproar. That has nothing to do with the holocaust.

However, to publish a cartoon that portrays all Muslims as terrorists and suggests that Islam is the root cause of terrorism is okay, because it's just 'free speech'. Hmm.

i very much disagree with all of that statement... both of them in fact.

>| Raoh |<

 

[Goberpiles316]

I believe its ironic the guy who dressed as a bomber is a convicted drug dealer, who does not mind ruining peoples lifes, but is so affected by a cartoon he dresses like that.

And second would Iran have the balls to do what they are at the moment if saddam was still in power next door?

When do you see other religions marching portraying hanging, beheading, bombings and death to us all?

 

[RaohNS]

I believe its ironic the guy who dressed as a bomber is a convicted drug dealer, who does not mind ruining peoples lifes, but is so affected by a cartoon he dresses like that.

And second would Iran have the balls to do what they are at the moment if saddam was still in power next door?

When do you see other religions marching portraying hanging, beheading, bombings and death to us all?

and its funny Mohammed was depicted as a suicide bomber.. and that idiot is dressed as one... game set match to the danes imo

>| Raoh |<

 

[Arcade Fire]

Would there be? I don't think so.

Care to try it and find out? You'd be very quickly criticised, and rightly so.

Would there be demos similar to those that we've seen so far? Nope.

I didn't say that there would be. I said that people would find it very offensive.

Do Islamic publications regularly publish cartoons such as you've described? Yes. Hmmm.

I'm sure they do. That makes them stupid for failing to see their own double standards. We shouldn't fall into the same trap.

Besides has Iran decided to portay jews as scroungers or as peopel deserving the holocaust hmmm.

That's great, but we're not arguing about what the Iranian government has decided to do, are we? I thought we'd already agreed that they were being stupid. What I'm saying is that in this country (or in Denmark) there would be outrage if someone portrayed Jews or Judaism in an obviously unfair light. There hasn't seemed to be that backlash against people publishing equally damning and misguided criticisms of Islam. So we have double standards.

 

[gib786]

I can say everytime I see something about Islam in the media I get more and more tired of trying to defend myself and Islam. Its to the point that I'd rather not even state my opinion anymore as it doesnt make a difference.

The best way to of handled this situation would have been to do it peacefully and in a way that society would not look down upon Islam but instead learn to understand. For instance a few meetings where people would sit down and discuss the situation rather than go into the streets an feel the need to create violence.

These kind of events make the REAL muslims of the western community feel like social outcasts. Yes the cartoons are not accepted in Islam but that doesnt mean there needs to be an all out war every time someone is offended.

Asim

That is by far the best single post in this whole thread, sums up the way I feel as well

 

[RaohNS]

That's great, but we're not arguing about what the Iranian government has decided to do, are we? I thought we'd already agreed that they were being stupid. What I'm saying is that in this country (or in Denmark) there would be outrage if someone portrayed Jews or Judaism in an obviously unfair light. There hasn't seemed to be that backlash against people publishing equally damning and misguided criticisms of Islam. So we have double standards.

MEANWHILE IN ARAB PAPERS REGARDING MICK TAKING OUT OF JEWS

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm <---Please remember folks these are from Arab papers in the Muslims world... note there havent been marches, apologies, sackings, death threats, burning of embasies etc by Jews in the Western World!

Islamic hypocrisy yes in deed.

That portrays Jews in a bad light... AF there is no marches here for those is there???

>| Raoh |<

 

[cleanbluesky]

However, to publish a cartoon that portrays all Muslims as terrorists and suggests that Islam is the root cause of terrorism is okay, because it's just 'free speech'. Hmm.

If this is your interpretation of the original cartoon then I can understand if you would be quick to accuse those around you of prejudice.

Also, criticising an ideology is okay. People choose whether they follow an ideology. Criticising a race of people for being something that they cannot change is less appropraite.

 

[RaohNS]

Islamic forced conversions in our jails, in response to

Muslim run jails

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_obj...usive—the-jail-run-by-al-qaeda-name_page.html

Notice how barbaric that is and also how Human Rights features as a prominence and a shield to preach hatred in arabic.

 

[VIRII]

That's great, but we're not arguing about what the Iranian government has decided to do, are we? I thought we'd already agreed that they were being stupid. What I'm saying is that in this country (or in Denmark) there would be outrage if someone portrayed Jews or Judaism in an obviously unfair light. There hasn't seemed to be that backlash against people publishing equally damning and misguided criticisms of Islam. So we have double standards.

There would be uproar if we portrayed jews unfairly or as hunchbacked scroungers? Nope. I suggest you check out some classic Shakespeare.

Would there be uproar if we made fun of the execution of millions of people? yes and rightly so.

The double standard is not one of us or the danes criticising an aspect of one religion but not another. Rather the double standard is one rife in Islamic countries- willingness to criticise others especially Jews but complete refusal to accept criticism in return.

 

[Nix]

I was watching the news last night and some Muslim leader wanted, and he saw this as the only reasonable compromise; to trial the cartoonist under an Islamic court and execute him/her. Muslims are very hypocritical people. It's okay for them to burn our flags but totally unacceptable for any westerner to portray satire. As i'm sure many of you know my views on religion by now, I will repeat it: religion is flawed. Islam is more corrupt than others. Part of the Qur'an actually orders the death of non-believers. Whoever made the religion sure as hell covered his back well. Islam is not peaceful and the peaceful minority you speak of, are acutally those living in the west. The middle-east is a cesspit of corruption, evil, and stupidity.

 

[RaohNS]

I was watching the news last night and some Muslim leader wanted, and he saw this as the only reasonable compromise; to trial the cartoonist under an Islamic court and execute him/her. Muslims are very hypocritical people. It's okay for them to burn our flags but totally unacceptable for any westerner to portray satire. As i'm sure many of you know my views on religion by now, I will repeat it: religion is flawed. Islam is more corrupt than others. Part of the Qur'an actually orders the death of non-believers. Whoever made the religion sure as hell covered his back well. Islam is not peaceful and the peaceful minority you speak of, are acutally those living in the west. The middle-east is a cesspit of corruption, evil, and stupidity.

Nail + Head

That is exactly it... we should try Muslims under Islamic law here. Bet they dont like it

>| Raoh |<

 

[cleanbluesky]

Notice how barbaric that is and also how Human Rights features as a prominence and a shield to preach hatred in arabic.

Bear in mind that the 'human right', 'equality', 'racism' etc. rhetoric is solely for the benefit of OUR ears - such concepts carry less weight in the Islamic world as their nuderstanding of the same things are different and we are one of the few countries that live in sufficient opulence that throwing simple words such as this around actually mean anything...