Soldato
Trying not to bite on this one....
Anti-semitic is a bit of a push, no?
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Trying not to bite on this one....
I think he is a fierce defender of free speach, which is a good thing.
I don't think there is any excessive amount of antisemitism specifically in Labour than there is any any other party - People disagree with Israeli oppression, they don't hate Jewish people.
Soldato
Don't hate people or judge what they say. If you must hate, hate their actions and judge what they do.
No one can reasonably criticise you for being anti-semetic, racist, whatever if you don't call the people themselves out but instead call out their actions.
No one can reasonably criticise you for being anti-semetic, racist, whatever if you don't call the people themselves out but instead call out their actions.
Hmmm... possibly, or simply arty caricatures.
Exactly my point. There's such a push against him for anything and everything it's becoming a bore. Most journalists and media outlets appear to simply dislike the man for no real, evidenced reason. Who's pushing this agenda?
Soldato
The current shambles of a government probably.
It kind of depends on what sort of 'group' they are a part of now doesn't it?
Being a Muslim doesn't make you a part of a 'race' its a religious belief whose adherents are mostly not (currently) white Europeans but are themselves a quite diverse bunch (everthing from Indonesians to Nigerians and all the rest.)
Being Jewish however is much more likely to be a signifier of a particular ethic identity as much as a religious one. So much so that non religious people are often identified as and self identify as Jewish.
'Islamophobia' as a thing is no more relevant therefore then claiming there is such a thing as 'toryphobia' and that it's racist phobia based on the premises that most (if not all) tories are white and both Toryism and Islam are both ideologies....
All Abrahanic religions have some very beliefs and rituals that many find objectionable (not that there alone amongst all the other religions here) and rightly should not be immune from criticism or ridicule based on their beliefs much like any other ideas.....
Caporegime
It's usually based on his support for the Palestinians, and his regrettable 2009 reference to Hamas and Hezbollah as his 'friends.'
Personally I think the accusations of racism against Corbyn are pure nonsense, but I am very concerned about the motives and trajectory of the Corbynite Momentum faction, which he seems eager to appease despite its barely veiled antisemitism.
It's not OK to hate either of them.
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Corbyn is a man of conviction and I have a lot more respect for him than I do many other politicians. He stands by his principles and will live and die by them. Whether you agree with his ideas or not, at least what you see is what you get.
He strikes me as an old school socialist. I don't think he particularly subscribed to all this identity politics that is all the rage and I believe he is a Eurosceptic.
Soldato
Not sure I agree with this. A person is free to think/feel what they like about any other person, group, ideology, whatever. As long as they dont take actions which are against the law or otherwise discriminatory then ok, but an individual's strength of feeling can make it hard for them to avoid being discriminatory, which I reckon happens a lot across all groups of people.
Depending on what you mean by 'hate' it's a little more nuanced than that ....
Its certainly OK and necessary, in a secular democracy, to be able to criticise the beliefs, practices and ideologies commonly held by the respective religious groups (Judaism and Islam) but its making the often somewhat tricky distinction between beliefs and racial identity that's the important part.
I am certaininly very strongly opposed to the beliefs of certain religions...
Interestingly the mural in question appears (intentionally or not) to be using the more secular identifiers of Jewish (racial) identity rather then religious identifiers (like for example a star of David or skull cap)
Permabanned
My Jewish friends take on this "cartoon" is they are flattered by the stereotyping of successful businessmen taking a lead in major finance, they are not mortified by it and none appear to be bothered in the least by it. And if Corbyn really thinks he is the equal, intellectually or otherwise of most successful Jews I know, he's kidding himself, they'd wipe the floor with him and his ideologies, and send him the bill with compound interest attached 
Soldato
When I looked at the mural I didnt immediately think 'Jews'. They just generally represent fat cats to me. So the person who is actually racist is the one who looked at that picture and associated it with Jews. If this was the Jews themseves, I would say they are being paranoid and over sensitive.
I don't personally think Corbyn is a person of such fortitude as to be willing to 'die' for his beliefs.... For me he's one of those usual modern western socialists whoose views on the world come from the rather cosseted lifestyle we tend to have in places like the UK which is the result itself of a largely capitalist system.
'Fat cats' where at least three of thoose shown have over sized noses and facial hair particularly remincient of derogatory, explicit caricatures of male Jews over an extended period of time.....
As I quoted in an earlier post even the artist confirms that the mural is intended to depict some Jewish people.....
Caporegime
The distinction is easy.
* Muslim: a religion, not a race
* Jewish: a religion, and a race
You can be ethnically Jewish and religiously Jewish, you can be ethnically Jewish without being religiously Jewish, and you can be religiously Jewish without being ethnically Jewish. But if you're a Muslim, race doesn't come into it at all.
Soldato
Lots of older rich people have big noses and facial hair. Like I said, I dont associate that image with it being of a Jewish person, just of a rich toff.
Jewish people running banks isnt something i ever think about.
The whole topic is very odd to me.
What would an anti semetic person actually do to demonstrate that? Drawing a picture of soneone with a big nose doesnt count.