Anti War demo's this Saturday

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Originally posted by riotstar
Then let his own people and his neighbours sort it out

Just about the most selfish thing i've ever heard.

Shoudl the US have left us to sort out WW2??

Would you not like help if the same thing happened in the UK??

Do you not have a conscience of what you just said for the people he has tortured, gassed etc?
 
Originally posted by MAD_BANDIT
well for a start, iraq is not a threat to world piece, the US is.

put this in another thread, but you might find it interesting.


The US is a ccountry that;
1) vetoed 36 resolutions regarding Israels occupation of the west Bank
2) supports Israel despite the outstanding for 30 years UN RESOLUTION calling for Israel to withdraw from the WEst Bank
3) refuses to sign up to the internation war crimes court (why?)
4) attempts to bully and bribe member of the Un into supporting it's policies (read the papers)
5) spys on fellow members of the UN
6) sold WMD to Iraq
7) withdrew from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty
8) urged abandonment of the Biological Weapons Convention (Donald A. Mahley)
9) declared that it is willing to use nukes pre-emptivly
10) refused to sign the COMPREHENSIVE TEST BAN TREATY
11) refused to sign the CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF LANDMINES
12) ensured that under the CHEMICAL WEAPONS CONVENTION, the president could refuse any inspections
13) withdrew from the KYOTO GLOBAL WARMING ACCORD
14) refuses to pay UNITED NATIONS DUES amounting to approx £500Million
15) refused to ratify the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child which would mean that 17 year olds could not join the US army
16) In May 2001, the United States was voted off the UN Human Rights Commission
17) 1950 Korean War – The USA invaded North Korea without any declaration of war, calling it a 'police action'
18) 1955 Vietnam War - started with a fasle declaraqtion that the US had been attacked
19) 1961 Invasion of Cuba because it did not like castro
20) 1965 Invasion of Dominican Republic because it did not like the legally elected government
21) 1973 Deposing of Salvador Allende in Chile (legally elected) and replacing with Augusto Pinochet - who promptly killed tens of thousands of innocent people
22) 1983 Invasion of Grenada because it did not like the legally elected government
23) 1985 Iran-Contra Affair – The USA secretly funded a guerrilla army with money made from illegal weapons sales to Iran
24) 1986 Bombing of Libya – Without offering any hard evidence whatsoever, the USA claimed that Libya was masterminding global terrorism and illegally bombed Tripoli, killing the daughter of Libyan leader Gaddafi and other innocent civilians
25) 1989 Invasion of Panama
26) 2001 - began series of extra-judicial killings of only terrorists SUSPECTED
27) 2003 - refuses to treat Guantánamo detainees with any basic human rights

HERE HERE

Ill tell you what if all these Arm chair Generals had to actually go and Fight in Iraqi , then they wouldnt soil themselfs
 
Originally posted by Roughneck
HERE HERE

Ill tell you what if all these Arm chair Generals had to actually go and Fight in Iraqi , then they wouldnt soil themselfs

Though I'm quite sure a similar 'list of shame' could be constructed for any country on earth. Some worse, some 'better'. Except may be Luxembourg... What do they do there?
 
Originally posted by Over Clocker
Shoudl the US have left us to sort out WW2??

They did for two years. If the Japanese had never attacked, we may never have had their help.

And yes the US's record as posted above is totally shameful.
 
Originally posted by Over Clocker
Just about the most selfish thing i've ever heard.

Shoudl the US have left us to sort out WW2??

Would you not like help if the same thing happened in the UK??

Do you not have a conscience of what you just said for the people he has tortured, gassed etc?

I didn't see people helping us out when the IRA were bombing Britain left right and centre and the US probably would have left us to sort out WW2 if Japan hadn't started on them.

The fact reamins, there is no need at all for us to get involved. The justification is that apparantly Iraq is a threat to this country, that's complete and utter BS. I'm not against Saddam being toppled, I just don't see why the UK should get dragged into this.

Kosovo I could see the point in, Afghanistan I was in favour of, but there's no justification for our involvement in this.

Let America spend all it's money on this if it so wishes, but personally I happen to feel we have much more pressing causes back home that we could spend the god knows how many billions are earmarked for this war on.
 
Originally posted by BuckEye
More info here -

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/

Whatever you feel about the troops etc, killing is NOT the answer. Our guys will die, and many more of the Iraqi civilians, not to mention the Iraqi troops. The last time a country invaded another as a 'pre-emptive' attack it was Germany going into Poland. At the time America said the attack was wrong. How things change.

S

What is the answer then?

Oh and Saturday? See Beakys "Shock and Awe" thread.
 
Originally posted by riotstar
..........The fact reamins, there is no need at all for us to get involved. The justification is that apparantly Iraq is a threat to this country, that's complete and utter BS. I'm not against Saddam being toppled, I just don't see why the UK should get dragged into this..............

That is not fact, it is your opinion.

And to compare what happened in iraq to the IRA is rubbish.

Firstly, the IRA do not speak for Ireland.

Secondly, the IRA did not gas hundreds of thousands and throw countless living people in meat grinders etc.

Mal
 
Originally posted by riotstar
I didn't see people helping us out when the IRA were bombing Britain left right and centre and the US probably would have left us to sort out WW2 if Japan hadn't started on them.

The fact reamins, there is no need at all for us to get involved. The justification is that apparantly Iraq is a threat to this country, that's complete and utter BS. I'm not against Saddam being toppled, I just don't see why the UK should get dragged into this.

Kosovo I could see the point in, Afghanistan I was in favour of, but there's no justification for our involvement in this.

Let America spend all it's money on this if it so wishes, but personally I happen to feel we have much more pressing causes back home that we could spend the god knows how many billions are earmarked for this war on.

Couldnt of said it better myself
 
I wouldn't protest the war for the simple fact I wouldn't want the fate of our country and all its people on my shoulders.

If our government says he's a threat, I trust them and IF this all backfires I have them to blame... but I'll be damned if a load of "make peace not war" hippies decide our countries fate in such a hostile world.

*shrugs at the thought of sadam layed dying in bed with a button labelled "launch nukes at west" beside him*
 
Originally posted by DirtyBerty
If our government says he's a threat, I trust them

Robin Cook was in the cabinet until a few days ago.. he has seen the same intelligence as Blair.. he says Iraq is not a threat to us. There are few more respected or intelligent men in the Commons than Cook.
 
Originally posted by riotstar
The fact reamins, there is no need at all for us to get involved. The justification is that apparantly Iraq is a threat to this country, that's complete and utter BS. I'm not against Saddam being toppled, I just don't see why the UK should get dragged into this.
It astonishes me how many times we see and hear the phrase "The fact is ..." only to have it followed by an opinion and not a fact. :D

Watch out on TV for it, especially when a politican uses it. Rarely a week goes by without it happening on Question Time, for a start.
 
Originally posted by riotstar
Kosovo I could see the point in, Afghanistan I was in favour of, but there's no justification for our involvement in this.

Can someone confirm that Kosovo was a NATO action and also didn't have a U.N. mandate, because that is what I remember.

Old Slobby Malowotsit (:eek: ) was an amateur compared to Saddam, but I see many people who didn't have a problem with intervention there go into fits of apoplexy over our involvement against Saddam.

I am uncomfortable with some decisions but could someone enlighten me as to why one was okay and this one isn't?
 
Originally posted by Marcus
It astonishes me how many times we see and hear the phrase "The fact is ..." only to have it followed by an opinion and not a fact. :D

Watch out on TV for it, especially when a politican uses it. Rarely a week goes by without it happening on Question Time, for a start.

Until I see proof that there is cause for war, in my head it's a fact :p

Pro War types all seems so convinced that there is cause for war, can I ask what Top Seekrit evidence you've all seen that I haven't?
 
Originally posted by riotstar
Until I see proof that there is cause for war, in my head it's a fact :p

Pro War types all seems so convinced that there is cause for war, can I ask what Top Seekrit evidence you've all seen that I haven't?

I've just my eyes open for the last 12 years, and agree with your signature, i guess you dont agree with it!!

I dont like knowing that 100,000 of innocent people get killed due to a dictator is a most brutal fasion, and that no one does anything to stop him.

Yes it happens elsewhere, but every little helps.

Mal
 
Originally posted by terrible
ummm i dont know and neither do you so why waste your time telling people that war isnt justified when you dont no if it isnt:rolleyes:

Sorry, off forums with work. Will respond to a few if I can.

So you're sugesting we go to war with countries because we don't know their motives? Who shall we attack next because we don't know it's NOT justified?

jeez

S
 
Originally posted by riotstar
Until I see proof that there is cause for war, in my head it's a fact :p

Pro War types all seems so convinced that there is cause for war, can I ask what Top Seekrit evidence you've all seen that I haven't?

Absolutely.

No one has evidence that we should go to war, but we do anyway. Look at who benefits from this war. It sure ain't Iraq, in ANY respect.

S
 
Originally posted by BuckEye
Absolutely.

No one has evidence that we should go to war, but we do anyway. Look at who benefits from this war. It sure ain't Iraq, in ANY respect.

S

Tell that to all the familiies of all the Iraqi's that have been brutally murdered by Saddam's regime, i'm sure they would love you.
 
Tell that to the families of Iraqis killed by sanctions and the 12yrs of bombing we've put them through already. There's a whole lot more of those than ones killed by Saddam. I don't say Saddam is even vaguely nice, but we've done far more damage from the West.

S
 
Originally posted by BuckEye
We can still register our disapproval and show that this war is not in our name. It's certainly not in mine.

S

Who said it was in your name? It isnt in your name, stop thinking you are so important that the government would wage a war in your name.

You will acheive nothing but your pathetic protest. Give up and go home for some tea instead.

We are aware of your disaproval. There is no need to waste your time standing around, as it'll acheive nothing.
 
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