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Caporegime
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The brilliance of that statement is that the next person couldn't tell if that was just sarcasm or actual religious gibberish.
I was quite aware, hence my comment.
Any religious people watch the Wonders of Life last night?
- Thread starter Johnnytoxic
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I was quite aware, hence my comment.
Yeah, you'd have thought that when faced with persecution for their belief, an intelligent reasonable individual would either move, renounce their faith or keep it to themselves.
So if a person is persecuted for their sexuality (or any number of other examples of prejudice) they should either move, renounce their sexuality and conform or only be themselves in secret, lest they get caught, as that is what an intelligent reasonable person would do?....
So if a person is persecuted for their sexuality (or any number of other examples of prejudice) they should either move, renounce their sexuality and conform or only be themselves in secret, lest they get caught, as that is what an intelligent reasonable person would do?....
That's not quite the same though - you have a choice to follow religion, whereas you don't choose your sexuality.
IMO it's more like music taste, if you love metal, but you're brought up in a household who exclusively listen to trance, and so you're persecuted by your friends and family for it, it would make sense to remove yourself from the environment, start listening to trance, or listen on your headphones.
So if a person is persecuted for their sexuality (or any number of other examples of prejudice) they should either move, renounce their sexuality and conform or only be themselves in secret, lest they get caught, as that is what an intelligent reasonable person would do?....
Sexuality isn't a choice, faith is. I'm not condoning persecution of someone because of their faith (even though 'faith' is generally quite ridiculous), however, as it's a variable within your control one would imagine that it would be sensible to make your life happier by simply not having a particular faith, or at the very least, having it in private?
Soldato
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In relation to the OP of this thread, knowing we come from the stars is amazing. Why would anyone think any differently about that? I, ME, Myself am a descendant of the stars...that is absolutely astonishing in every sense of the word. Religious people have their beliefs and often think the entirely Scientific focuses people miss out but in my eyes it's 100% the opposite.
Science makes me feel amazing every day of my life. It gives me incredibly interesting discussions with my friends and reading a simple phrase can have you wondering in amazement for days and days.
I have in my body some of the rarest atoms in the entire universe.
Anyone who ever wonders about how Science can make you feel and how much worth it can give to your being then I can only direct them to this video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk
Neil Degrasse Tyson himself has talked about how you can look up at the night sky and know you are a part of that amazing universe. It's not some distant thing you have no connection to. You may well be the result of the most complex cosmological chain reaction to ever take place in all of existance. How in the world could that not make everyone feel great?
Science makes me feel amazing every day of my life. It gives me incredibly interesting discussions with my friends and reading a simple phrase can have you wondering in amazement for days and days.
I have in my body some of the rarest atoms in the entire universe.
Anyone who ever wonders about how Science can make you feel and how much worth it can give to your being then I can only direct them to this video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk
Neil Degrasse Tyson himself has talked about how you can look up at the night sky and know you are a part of that amazing universe. It's not some distant thing you have no connection to. You may well be the result of the most complex cosmological chain reaction to ever take place in all of existance. How in the world could that not make everyone feel great?
I don't personally use the word evolution in my day to day vocabulary, i call it change or variation within a species, gene reshuffling, or slight micro changes but only withn the boundaries and limitations of a species, i only really use the word evolution if i'm discussing "molecules-to-man evolution". I believe that all life was caused by God and that humans are a special creation by God, and that planet earth is unique in a very unique Universe. Just awesome creation really.
Of course it is, everyone has a choice, everyone has free will to choose, sexuality is or can be a chosen lifestyle.
No, that is choosing to act on your attraction, not choosing the attraction. Do you choose which women you find attractive? Did you specifically choose to be attracted to women in the first place?
I made no choice to be heterosexual.
So do you choose who you're attracted to?
That being said, you appear to "believe that all life was caused by God" so believing you choose your sexuality can't be much of a stretch!
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People's beliefs are rarely a simple choice either, they are formed as a combination of nature, nurture and cultural and ethnic influences. it is an inherent part of their personality and inherent in who they are and how they think. You can choose to act upon them or not, in the same way as your sexuality (there are many examples of homosexuality/bisexuality/heterosexuality by choice also, either positive or negative) you can act upon your feelings or not. An example; You are an atheist are you not, you could choose to practice Christianity, going through the motions of Church, Bible Study and so on, but would you actually believe in Christ and in the fundamental basis of Christianity, (or any religion you choose to follow)? Would you actually be a Christian or simply an atheist pretending to be a Christian?
If society choose to persecute you for being an atheist, would you hide who you are, pretend to believe and conform in whatever the prevailing ideology was, and would you follow the prevailing crowd and denounce those around you who also believed as you (secretly) do, but refused to conform to the ideology of society? Because that is what you are stating, that basically only an idiot would stand up and risk persecution to insist on their right to free thought and freedom of expression, to be who they are and not who society says they must be, (not to mention Arab (Coptic) Christians and others are persecuted simply for being who they are, not for proselytising or not conforming to Islamic Laws within the Countries in which they reside, they are simply persecuted for thinking and believing something different) seems a rather ridiculous thing to advocate in itself to me!
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Soldato
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This is one of my bug bears of religious views. It's nothing but arrogance to assume humans are 'special'.
It seems clear to me that man created God in his own image, then told himself God created him in his own image as to give himself an excuse as to why he is so special.
Our advantage over the rest of the animal kingdom is often exaggerated. Our skill is intelligence, but that is it. Don't get me wrong it's a powerful tool to have, but mainly because it allows us to solve problem other animals did hundreds of thousands of years ago.
Now if we had the eyesight of a hawk, the night vision and hearing of an owl, the ability to run faster than a cheetah, the ability to breath under water, use sonar inbuilt into our bodies, could expel venom on top of intelligence then I would say we're special. I mean why, if humans are special to God, did he give other animals better sense than ours? Why not give us all the best bits and the rest of the animal kingdom whatever was left over? Why did God give dogs 220 million olfactory receptors in its nose and me only 5 million if I'm the special one?
But as I look at it, all living things have just adapted and evolved to suit their environment and continued existence. Evolution works not by giving animals the best or what would be nice but only what they need. And that explanation fits perfectly with the world I see around me.
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Fixed the above.
No, but then I wasn't arguing that someone should do that with religion I was just pointing out (probably futilely) that kedge was incorrect that homosexuality was a choice.
I do not think people should have to hide their faith or indeed their lack of faith.
Science should just stay the hell out of moral matters. Degrading human beings to mere animals. It makes me sick. We're worth so much more. Making excuses for killers by saying "they had no choice, just the way they're wired". Please. Concentrate on looking at the stars and stay out of personal matters.
Science doesn't have anything to say on morality. It can certainly be used as a tool to help inform us of morality but as far as morality itself goes, science is agnostic.
On the wider question of morality though, what gives you the right to force your morality on to people who do not believe in God?
But their choice to act on their attractions harms no one and so should not be a problem.
I don't impose my morality on anyone. We all have free will. We will all stand before God. As that poem goes, "it was never between you and them anyway. It was you and God."
It doesn't matter whether it harms anyone or not. It's an abomination. If God wanted two men to reproduce he would have given them the means to do so.
Soldato
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When did you choose to be straight?
Is a straight couple where one one or both is/are infertile an abomination too then? What about post menopausal women, should they be banned from having relationships? Just following your logic.
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