Anybody here actually believe in all this Global Warming malarky?

Nope I don't belive in global warming per say, we only release something like 3% of the total co2 emisions per year. The globe goes though ice ages and heat waves, belive it or not were experincing the end of one ice age and in a few decades if not hundreads of year well go back into another iceage..

Stop worring about it we are a clever speceise and can live tough anything... (i mean that, maybe not society as we now it, but what ever is thorwen at us I belive we can servive..
 
As the evidence is supposedly too thin on the ground for us to be 100% certain we're causing global warming, I'm going to plead ignorance and carry on burning more and more fossil fuels until they prove it.
[/head in sand sarcasm]
 
I say better safe than sorry.

We don't know for sure if its us or a blip in the planets natural cycles. but if the trends even suggest that it might be us, than I think we should take it very seriously. I'm willing to make big sacrifices if it MIGHT make our childrens' life better.

I know one thing for sure, if you remember - things are visably much better now than they were back when everybody was burning nomal coal. Smokeless coal was supposed to be a small difference in the scale of things, but DAMN, you really notice the change - much better IMO.

Also, having lived high in the alps, christ I can really feel the diffence in the quality of the air.... :eek:
 
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I have to admit, i cant throw any useful information into either side of the arguement. But i did feel that this winter was very mild in comparison to my last 23 years of memory.
 
When I was studying Global Warming I read about a thoery stating that the Ice caps melting would result in large amounts of fresh water entering the Atlantic ocean disturbing the 'Homboult' (Did I make that up? I swear its something like that) current, ultimately leading to the climate dropping in tempreture dramatically. I think something like this happens OTT in the the film 'The Day After Tommorow'.

Edit - Groan, the Holboult current is to do with 'ENZO' kill me now :p

Heres what I was on about - http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm

Very interesting, what do people think?
 
Ok, basically the ocean current systems are very important to where warm air / climate is on the planet. If the ice caps melted, theoretically it would mean a large input of fresh water distrubing the salt water and the gulf stream (I think) would basically stop rotating meaning well... problems. I'm too tired to explain this well :p
 
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Nix said:
Ok, basically the ocean current systems are very important to where warm air / climate is on the planet. If the ice caps melted, theoretically it would mean a large input of fresh water distrubing the salt water and the gulf stream (I think) would basically stop rotating meaning well... problems. I'm too tired to explain this well :p

EDIT: I don't think it's the gulf stream :p


its the gulf stream :)


basically by dumping fresh water into the oceans you dilute the salt water, weight of the salt water when impacting on fresh water is what creates the ocean currents that in a grand cyle maintain our temporate climate, less salt = a weker current = a slower ocean current = bad news for us, ergo, polar ice melting too quickly is not good as its dumping billions of tons of extra fresh water into the oceans,...
 
I can't for the life of me find the info again, but the explosions of Mt. St. Helens and Mt. Pinatubo EACH released more CO2 than the entire human population has in its meager existance.

The forest fires that occour in the western United States and Canada every year release more pollution gasses than all the cars in the world each year.

Methane gas emitted from trapped pockets on the floor of the ocean create more greenhouse gasses than humans can ever ATTEMPT to.

And for one thing, the polar ice caps are frozen ocean, hence doesn't the ice have salt in it as well as the water? So melting them wouldn't add fresh water would it? Wouldn't it add more salt water? I'm asking this in honesty. I really don't know myself, and it's way too late at night for me to be bothered to look it up.
 
Good morning OCuK!
(sorry for the length of this post... :eek: )
Just before xmas I had to research and prepare a seminar on global warming/greenhouse effect - heres some things that came of this:

1. The natural greenhouse effect is real - simple radiation balance calculations show that the surface of the earth is warmer that it 'should be'. It should average -6°C . Infact studies show that it is 15°C . This is because of natural greenhouses gasses (GHGs) in the atmosphere which carry heat to higher altitudes where the emission is re-radiated out of the atmosphere. Incidently this occurs at an altitude of ~6km, which corresponds to the temperature of approx -6°C (required for radiation equalibrium). THIS EFFECT IS ACCEPTED GLOBALLY.

2. The anthropogenic or enhanced greenhouse effect describes the human influence on the natural greenhouse effect. This is obviously due to altering the levels of GHGs in the atmosphere. The effect of higher GHG concentrations is that emissions occur at a higher altitude (thus at a cooler temperature) resulting in positive radiative forcing (more radiaition comming into the atmosphere, than leaving). The response is to try and level this out, and the earth's atmosphere warms so that the temperature at the emitting altitude (lets say its now ~8km) is -6°C and balance is restored. This means that surface temp rises in accordance with a linear temperature profile.

3. UNFCCC reckon there's a net increase in global temperatures of 0.6°C over the past 100 years which is attributed solely to enhanced greehouse effect. In the past 40 years, direct CO2 measurements from Mauna Loa show a rise in atmospheric CO2 levels of around 50 parts per million (now at ~365ppm).
However, using records of the Earths geomagnetic index as a proxy for solar activity, M. Lockwood has deduced that Solar Coronal activities have doubled in the last 100 years (1999). This is backed up by sunspot records.

4. Crash course in a possible (one of many possible) link between solar activity and Earth climate:
Solar activity means high ejections of solar plasma which carry with it, a frozen-in magnetic field. This magnetic field extends out to the very edge of the solar system, where galactic comsic rays (high energy protons and ions) meet the influence of the solar magnetic field. During high activity, the magnetic field hinders the cosmic rays traversing the solar system (thus less appear at earth).
Cosmic rays in the atmopshere produce ionisation at low altitudes, acting as nucleation centers for (low level) cloud formation. Low clouds are optically thick, and so sunlight gets reflected away before reaching the earths surface. This is negative radiaitive forcing leading to a cooling effect on earth.
(N. Marsh & H. Svensmark (2000))

Summarise:
Past ~100 years
Solar Mag flux:
up 131%
--> Cosmic Ray Flux:
down 11.2%
--> Low cloud cover:
down 8.6%
Expected value for radiative forcing: +1.4 Watts per square meter
Compare this to the estimated contribution from enhanced GH: +1.5 W/m^2

As you can see these figures are very close considering the simplicity of this argument. As far as I am concerened, there is no doubt in my mind that global warming is occuring, but it can be attributed to BOTH human and natural effects. The real question is which effect dominates the trend in rising temperature? Unfortunatly there is the inclination of scientists and polititions to look for the one answer, when infact it can be the sum of many subtle effects. Above only counts CO2 and the role of cosmic flux due to solar variation. There is evidence to suggest that solar UV emissions that increase during high activity disassociate particles and aerosols in the atmosphere that can also increase cloud production, equally methane from livestock add more GHGs to the atmosphere. Its not until all therories are considered together that a wider picture/model can be deduced for the Earth's fate.

Sorry if the above is a bit disjointed.. I may have over simplified some aspects to make it more readable. Feel free to ask questions or expand on any points.
 
I really don't care for it to be honest although I think I should. I'll be pushing up daisies before the north pole melts anyway :D
 
The fact is sea levels are rising. This means that, most likely within our lifetimes, large areas of land will be reclaimed by the sea. It just isn't always possible to build better sea defences, they cost too much.

So, coastal populations in some areas will be forced to move further inland. This means denser populations (no not chavs!). Diseases will then spread even more rapidly than they are doing so today, e.g. bird flu. Pollution will become worse. The ground water is already badly polluted from over farming and the like.

I think the bottom line is that the planet is already over populated and this is at the root of most problems, if not all! The next ice age is the least of our worries.
 
Aliboy said:
I really don't care for it to be honest although I think I should. I'll be pushing up daisies before the north pole melts anyway :D

It already has to a large extent. It is quite likely that it will have more or less disappeared within our lifetime (or at least by the end of this century) leaving only the Greenland glacier.
 
danrok said:
I think the bottom line is that the planet is already over populated
I read that this planet can easily support about 30 billion. We're not even a 1/4 way to being overpopulated.
 
dmpoole said:
or like me do you believe that the Earth goes through cycles every several thousands of years and no amount of burning fossil fuels has made a difference.

Yeah, but then that leads to the conclusion that we are pretty ****** and it doesnt sell papers or make scientists feel excited about their work...

I wouldn't be surprised if we are making this particular cycle a little shorter but they're huge anyway...
 
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