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Anyone else wanting to upgrade but just can't stomach paying so much for it?

If the price is to high for what ever you are looking to buy just walk away and do not try to convince yourself that it is worth paying over the top.
 
End of the day something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it, if AMD and Nvidia price their cards high and people buy them, then thats what they will continue to do, infact any manufacturer will do the same.

Unfortunately no one will ever drive the prices down, you can vote with your wallet and not buy them, someone else will, and that will justify the price to the vendor.

Best thing is to either suck it up and pay the money, or dont pay the money and buy 2nd hand or a cheaper alternative. No amount of fourm whining, or whining in general is going to change things, ever... if people buy a product at xx price it will sell at xx price, next iteration of product will increase by xx for all sorts of reasons, people will still pay for it.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH, you do know British Gas is only retail sales now? It doesn't invest in infrastructure or produce gas. That would be Centrica (The parent company of British Gas), BG Group & the National Grid.

Also apple did raise the price of it MacBook Pro by 45% on an already over priced item. That an expensive led strip. :)

You mention intel not having big price increases, but they also haven't had big performance increases either. Example the 6700K is only 50% faster at best than the 2600k. If nivida or AMD only had a 50% improvment over 4.5 years you'd be complaining even more than normal. :D
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
All I see in this thread is some people saying GPU prices have gone up and its starting to make them think twice about upgrading. Its a fair comment.

The equivalent of a second tier 500mm2 salvage GPU today is $1200(the GTX570 was the same and was $330). So that is a 3.64 times increase in USD pricing. Plus AMD has gone from $400 with the HD5870 to nearly $700 for the Fury X.
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The 5870 was a 334mm^2 die, the Fury is a 600mm^2 die. The price increase is entirely fair and within reason for the Fury in comparison to the 5870. The issue is that Nvidia performance/mm^2 was horrible up till Maxwell or so, meaning a 5870 at 334mm^2 was performing dramatically closer to a 500mm^2 Nvidia chip than a 300mm^2 Nvidia chip. So on 40nm AMD could go way way smaller for the same performance and therefore a lot cheaper. When Nvidia finally fixed their performance/mm^2, AMD had to make a far larger chip to be competitive with Nvidia, and while AMD were in a 2 year waiting period before ramping up for Zen they weren't updating their architecture and so they needed a 600mm^2 Fury to compete with a 600mm^2 980ti.

However you are correct that the Nvidia pricing is a scam.

There is a 'fair' price for everything. A price that means the company making said product gets a fair profit and can continue spending and making the parts they are making just fine including R&D, paying wages, etc. Then there is seeing a fair price, and just asking for twice as much for no other reason than to see if people are stupid enough to pay.

Nvidia is charging stupid prices for no other reason than people are paying them yet when people refused to pay for the Titan-Z at $3000, it dropped to $2000 in a couple of months. It still didn't sell well but despite making very few they priced it absurdly and brought the price down massively to shift any, proving that Nvidia (as any company) will bring down prices if a product isn't selling.

If people stopped paying $1200 for a Titan X, the price would drop to $800 in a couple of months, etc, etc.

Unfortunately you get this kind of "I can afford premium stuff, so I'm a better person than you" attitude from a LOT of people. They are too blind to realise that if they accept higher pricing, they encourage even higher pricing. Eventually those people who bang on about "being able to afford it so why not" when a card goes from $600 to $1000, find the price going to $1500 and suddenly deciding they can't afford it and wondering how the prices got so high in the first place.

Being able to afford a card doesn't mean the price is okay, sensible or shouldn't be better.

If people flat out said no to the first Titan pricing, if people said wait, why am I paying $1000 for something that was $600 last gen and didn't pay it. Titan would have come back down, 780ti/780 would have cost less. The gtx980 would have cost less, the 980ti/Titan X(first one) would have cost less, etc, etc.

All while Nvidia made plenty of fair profit, invested the same amount in R&D and produced the same cards, just with less 0's added to their bank account.
 
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SiDeards73 said:
End of the day something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it, if AMD and Nvidia price their cards high and people buy them, then thats what they will continue to do, infact any manufacturer will do the same.

Unfortunately no one will ever drive the prices down, you can vote with your wallet and not buy them, someone else will, and that will justify the price to the vendor.

Best thing is to either suck it up and pay the money, or dont pay the money and buy 2nd hand or a cheaper alternative. No amount of fourm whining, or whining in general is going to change things, ever... if people buy a product at xx price it will sell at xx price, next iteration of product will increase by xx for all sorts of reasons, people will still pay for it.
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The thing is People think that if AMD has competing cards at the high end the prices will come tumbling down, the prices will be a little bit cheaper just so AMD can be seen as offering more for less money but its still going to be for a lot of money because now its if you cant beat them being a lot cheaper then may as well join them in being expensive and we have already been seeing this with AMDs high end card, being cheap in general is over, unless the consumer says no to buying at the high prices, competition between AMD and NV is not going to do it anymore.
 
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Sarcasm aside - I think AMD's statement about not wanting to be a cheap brand anymore is telling.

They can see Nvidia making loadsofmoney(:D),so in the end even if Vega is pretty decent I can only minor price adjustments,maybe a free game,etc.

Since it is only two players - I can see them kind of not pushing too hard now. Much easier for a cartel of sorts than a price war.

Also if AMD is going with cutting edge technology like interposers and HBM2,until these become fairly common in cheaper cards,I expect costs won't be uber cheap either compared to Nvidia.

The only way I can see them initiating a price-war is if they start getting better performance/mm2 against Nvidia with similar memory standards.

However,with Nvidia now having different lines for professional and consumer cards,I am not sure that will happen.

AMD is trying to make one size fits all GPUs,AMD Hawaii,being one of them.

Plus the pound crashing to its lowest during most our lifetimes,has made things worse too.
 
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easyrider said:
2006 GTX 7900

BFG Tech's GeForce 7900 GTX OC is available in two places that we checked. Both Overclockers UK and ****** are selling the card for just under £435 at the moment

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2006/03/16/asus_bfg_msi_geforce_7900_gtx_roundup/1

With Inflation

TESy9xn.jpg

Nothing has changed....Prcing has remained constant for NV top end cards.
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jiFfM.jpg
 
~£250 is about my limit for graphics card spending, once every 3 or 4 years.

I tend to find a good game and play it forever.

I'm still playing Company of Heroes. Rocket League is my new love :)


Edit.
easyrider, does that website also explain the Taz bar / Freddo bar rise from 5p to whatever it is now? :o
 
I don't think the 1070 is too bad, its as good as a 980ti for 400 with low TDP... or below that you have the rx480 or 1060, I do think the titan X is pretty horrific at 1100, but for example a 1080 is already good and the TXP is a luxury item if you want 4k 60fps.
 
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Final8y said:
The thing is People think that if AMD has competing cards at the high end the prices will come tumbling down, the prices will be a little bit cheaper just so AMD can be seen as offering more for less money but its still going to be for a lot of money because now its if you cant beat them being a lot cheaper then may as well join them in being expensive and we have already been seeing this with AMDs high end card, being cheap in general is over, unless the consumer says no to buying at the high prices, competition between AMD and NV is not going to do it anymore.
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All it would take is for AMD to release something that performs as well as NVidia on the GPU front and Intel on the CPU front but drastically cheaper, if the product offers great performance, cooling etc at a really good price people will buy.

If AMD are really interested in shaking up the market, they should release Vega and Zen (if they compete with the respective high end parts in both areas) at much cheaper than expected, yes they need to make money, but if your offering Nvidia performance at similar prices people will just stay Nvidia as the brand name is extremely strong. Same with Intel...

If you offer the same performance and stats etc as Intel and Nvidia but you are much much cheaper, you will win sales purely off that, and as word spreads that your brand is as good but cheaper you will win even more market share.

End of the day though its the product, if the product is no good, does not matter how you market it, you wont get the sales, this has been AMD's achilles heel for too long, every product they have released over the past few years on both CPU and GPU front has been flawed in one way or another.

If they can get it right, release something that properly takes the fight to their competitors without the flaws they will get sales and win share.
 
Spent a grand last week on a new build. Took the view that things weren't going to get any cheaper soon. Didn't really look at prices six months ago as that would do my head in.
New system is up and running. Fast, quiet and plays BF1 on ultra and looks amazing. All happy. Plus, I saved the money rather than take credit, so even happier that I owe nothing on it.
 
SiDeards73 said:
All it would take is for AMD to release something that performs as well as NVidia on the GPU front and Intel on the CPU front but drastically cheaper, if the product offers great performance, cooling etc at a really good price people will buy.

If AMD are really interested in shaking up the market, they should release Vega and Zen (if they compete with the respective high end parts in both areas) at much cheaper than expected, yes they need to make money, but if your offering Nvidia performance at similar prices people will just stay Nvidia as the brand name is extremely strong. Same with Intel...

If you offer the same performance and stats etc as Intel and Nvidia but you are much much cheaper, you will win sales purely off that, and as word spreads that your brand is as good but cheaper you will win even more market share.

End of the day though its the product, if the product is no good, does not matter how you market it, you wont get the sales, this has been AMD's achilles heel for too long, every product they have released over the past few years on both CPU and GPU front has been flawed in one way or another.

If they can get it right, release something that properly takes the fight to their competitors without the flaws they will get sales and win share.
Click to expand...

AMD is gaining market share while NV is gaining all the profits.
AMD could have 50% market share and not even make half the profits that NV is making, it would likely be a 75% 25% profit split at best.
It would take many generations of having good market share to start gaining the profits.

So AMD comes out with a good high end that competes for one gen, undercuts hard gets some market share from the high end back then NV uses it resources to fight back, then next NV gets ahead of AMD as is the norm but because AMD undercut so much with its current card has not the resources to counter back in any meaningful time scale and we are back to where we are right now, but AMD may have a bit more market share and then start bleeding marketshare again at the high end for another gen until they can make another competing card at the high end.

Its going to be 2 steps forwards and 1 step back for AMD for a while yet, because its not just about the price, AMD has to overcome brand loyalty, perception and good marketing which one high end at an incredible price card from AMD will not overcome long term.
If anything Its from what NV is doing themselves which could help accelerate AMDs gains if AMD does not keep missing the opportunities.
 
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Final8y said:
AMD is gaining market share while NV is gaining all the profits.
AMD could have 50% market share and not even make half the profits that NV is making, it would likely be a 75% 25% profit split at best.
It would take many generations of having good market share to start gaining the profits.

So AMD comes out with a good high end that competes for one gen, undercuts hard gets some market share from the high end back then NV uses it resources to fight back, the next NV gets ahead of AMD as is the norm but because AMD undercut so much with its current card has not the resources to counter back in any meaningful time scale and we are back to where we are right now, but AMD may have a bit more market share and then start bleeding marketshare again at the high end for another gen until they can make another competing card at the high end.

Its going to be 2 steps forwards and 1 step back for AMD for a while yet, because its not just about the price, AMD has to overcome brand loyalty, perception and good marketing which one high end at an incredible price card from AMD will not overcome long term.
If anything Its from what NV is doing themselves which could help accelerate AMDs gains if AMD does not keep missing the opportunities.
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For one thing AMD really needs to do something about their reference coolers.

Look at the last 4 reference coolers they have done:
1.)R9 290/290X=meh,and Nvidia exploited it by showing the card could throttle and probably made all the whole line look worse
2.)R9 295X2 = decent
3.)Fury X =meh due to QC issues
4.)RX480=meh and the card could not run at full clockspeed

If AMD just improved their stock coolers,to have decent cooling and QC,half the issues wouldn't be there.

Or better still if they can't do so,stop releasing reference cooler designs for consumer cards.

They do all the work and then eff up on the finer details at launch.
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
For one thing AMD really needs to do something about their reference coolers.

Look at the last 4 reference coolers they have done:
1.)R9 290/290X=meh,and Nvidia exploited it by showing the card could throttle and probably made all the whole line look worse
2.)R9 295X2 = decent
3.)Fury X =meh due to QC issues
4.)RX480=meh and the card could not run at full clockspeed

If AMD just improved their stock coolers,to have decent cooling and QC,half the issues wouldn't be there.

Or better still if they can't do so,stop releasing reference cooler designs for consumer cards.

They do all the work and then eff up on the finer details at launch.
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Indeed the first impressions and reviews are so important.

But i don't want AMD to be in this situation.

To get a feel for what’s going on, click back and forth between the two views—market share and profit share. With 17.2% of the smartphone market in 2015, Apple captured 91% of the profit. Samsung, with 23.9% of the market, took 14% of the profit.
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That is the power of marketing and perception right there 91% of the profit and yet they didn't even sell the most 17.2% but charged the most in relation to cost of the product to make and im sure there are plenty of Apple loyalists in denial that marketing and perception had nothing to do with being able to charge so much.
Sharp-eyed readers will note that Apple and Samsung shared 105% of the profit last year. That’s because so many of their competitors lost money.
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http://fortune.com/2016/02/14/apple-mobile-profit-2015/
And thats with Apple with only 17.2% marketshare, now imagine if Apple had 70% share which is where NV is about at the moment.
 
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Final8y said:
Indeed the first impressions and reviews are so important.
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But that is the issue,they do all the expensive parts of the R and D and fall down on details.

Imagine if the R9 290 series had a decent cooler?? The RX480 didn't downclock??

Even the R9 285 launch was massively mismanaged - many reviews had a MSI card which had terribad performance/watt,yet other cards had generally improved performance/watt over the R9 280.

Their PR should have known that performance/watt was the new buzzword with the GTX750TI launch over six months earlier.

Yet,apparently they missed that one.

It made AMD look like they were going backwards in performance/watt whilst Nvidia was moving forwards.

At least when it came to the R9 300 series rebrands I thought they had finally learnt their lesson,and they ended up getting increasing sales,ie, from 18% to 30% of the market.

Then we had the Fury X fiasco and the RX480 issues.

It worries me that Vega will have some minor problem,Nvidia PR will exploit it and AMD are back to square one.

Its literally clutching defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
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