Are cars getting too fast?

Nasher said:
Yea at normal speeds, but if you tried to actually corner quickly it will understeer like mad and TC will kick in.
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Understeer and traction control kick in at the same time on a rwd car?

The context of the comment was normal speed. Usual strawman arguments from Nasher.
 
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I love fast cars but there's no genuine reason for a road car to have more than 300hp, and only really up to that for towing.

Track wise though, over 9000 all day long.
 
Simon said:
Understeer and traction control kick in at the same time on a rwd car?

The context of the comment was normal speed. Usual strawman arguments from Nasher.
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Difference is on a RWD car you can switch TC off and slide it around for fun, probably drive it quicker if you know what you're doing. Turn TC off on an understeery car and all you get is even more understeer.

Though most of these EVs are not balanced or set up for this kind of thing. It's a functional brick basically. The idea of driving dynamics and feel seems to have been lost.
 
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Yaayuh! said:
My only issue is the potential for Maureen down the road having access to high performance in a regular car on her work’s company car scheme just for her daily commute to her job in HR.

I.e. People with lack of experience with fast cars, now have easy access to them.
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However with the Porsche GT2 we had many Jims and Jorgens that orphaned their kids - not called Windowmakers for nothing.

There will always be a % that total the car in the first hour, or first day.
 
Nasher said:
Yea at normal speeds, but if you tried to actually corner quickly it will understeer like mad and TC will kick in.
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I think it is the other way around actually - if you (in general) try to corner quickly TC will kick in and it will understeer like mad - because it takes actual driver skill to corner them quickly with assists disabled. (EDIT: Gets a bit complicated but driving assists tends to induce understeer in a lot of situations because people put a vehicle into an oversteer situation, but it can also result in oversteer).

While I don't tend to drive it that way, my truck is over 2T, rear wheel drive and while no EV has lots of torque, it is perfectly possible to chuck it through corners, though I wouldn't recommend that with pickups in general as some will absolutely not handle it like the Isuzus.
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
aids cut-in? Not very intrusive clearly if you need a light to tell you they are working! I just cant understand how your brain thinks - going round a bend and increasing your speed to hit a speed limiter you didnt have before and yet you link same sentence to people braking into bends? HINT : braking means they tend to be slowing a car.
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It was a question to folks with the likes of dsc - can you not sense when it might be being used, does it always tell you ?
if your genz - just out of L plates, doesn't realise he is pushing the envelope on the bend then he's not going to (have an opportunity) learn.

SUV drivers who are a bit more experienced obviously brake .. to the annoyance of people in lighter cars behind.
... an HGV goes around a bend, not sure if scania will call it fun/enjoyable versus utilitarian.

( In an analogous environment I remember what it felt like moving from a steel to carbon framed bicycle - propulsive power didn't change but the fun & nimbleness. )
 
Screeeech said:
In 2005 I had a Nissan Skyline R33 GTR, it was like 400bhp and went like absolute hell, it was mental....

Compared to the average stuff on the road nowadays though, it would be mediocre - cars have gotten so so fast.

I keep having this urge to get a new M5, 0-60 in 3.3 seconds or something, but then I'm like 'why...?' there's just no point.

Speed cameras everywhere, roads choked up everywhere, there's just no point in that much power lol.

(I'll probably buy one anyway, because I'm an idiot when it comes to these sorts of purchases.... :rolleyes: )
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You need 0-60 in 2s minimum in 2024. Get with the times
 
Nasher said:
Difference is on a RWD car you can switch TC off and slide it around for fun, probably drive it quicker if you know what you're doing. Turn TC off on an understeery car and all you get is even more understeer.

Though most of these EVs are not balanced or set up for this kind of thing. It's a functional brick basically. The idea of driving dynamics and feel seems to have been lost.
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No idea what you are muttering about.
How is traction control off on a Rwd car gonna make it understeer more ?
 
jpaul said:
It was a question to folks with the likes of dsc - can you not sense when it might be being used, does it always tell you ?
if your genz - just out of L plates, doesn't realise he is pushing the envelope on the bend then he's not going to (have an opportunity) learn.

SUV drivers who are a bit more experienced obviously brake .. to the annoyance of people in lighter cars behind.
... an HGV goes around a bend, not sure if scania will call it fun/enjoyable versus utilitarian.

( In an analogous environment I remember what it felt like moving from a steel to carbon framed bicycle - propulsive power didn't change but the fun & nimbleness. )
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You never driven a car with DSC or traction control? What have you actually driven ?
 
Nasher said:
Difference is on a RWD car you can switch TC off and slide it around for fun, probably drive it quicker if you know what you're doing. Turn TC off on an understeery car and all you get is even more understeer.

Though most of these EVs are not balanced or set up for this kind of thing. It's a functional brick basically. The idea of driving dynamics and feel seems to have been lost.
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Who is doing this on a public road lol?
 
Dominic-Toretto said:
A few examples:
Kia EV6 GT: (576bhp) 0-60: 3.1s, 1/4 mile: 11.4s @ 121mph
Hyundai Ioniq 5N (640BHP) 0-60: 2.9s, 1/4 mile: 10.9s @ 124mph
Tesla Model 3 Performance: (510bhp) 0-60: 2.7s, 1/4 mile: 10.7s @ 127mph
Porsche Taycan Turbo S: (938bhp): 0-60 2.4s, 1/4 mile 9.8s @ 139mph
Tesla Model S Plaid: (1020bhp) 0-60: 2.1s, 1/4 mile:p 9.2s @ 153mph

It's 2024 and we have Hyundai's pushing almost 700bhp, in normal cars, how long until 1000bhp is the new norm? That's great if you live your life a quarter mile at a time like me, but for the rest of society, it is a lot of power to handle. Where will this stop? To be frank even 700bhp is pushing to much for the road in a mass produced cars. You cannot use the power for long, your very quickly in to triple digit figures in many newer performance cars.

What are your thoughts on this?
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You don't have to buy them. I realised 95% of the time I just wasn't using the performance stuck in traffic.
 
I don't see anyone struggling to control (or even that often, driving at silly pace) EV's when I am on the road. Most are driven like every other car I see.

Sure they now have massive power so your facility to get it wrong properly are increased, but the fact is most drivers never get close extracting performance for their cars, even in a straight line.
 
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OspreyO said:
You don't have to buy them. I realised 95% of the time I just wasn't using the performance stuck in traffic.
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Something i also didnt pick up on in the OP...... all the cars picked were deliberately the ultra performance models, the ones made to show off.

these are all incredibly expensive models compared to the entry level versions of the same car so if granny bought a tesla, she is not likely to end up accidentally in the plaid model.

Add to that, why shouldnt kia and hyundai be allowed to sell performance cars? that sounds dangerously like badge snobbery to me.

as for the taycan... well Porsche have been selling performance cars for years so no change there.

i do accept that EVs accelerate quicker than equivalent ICE cars... but you dont have to buy the sub 4 second cars.

also an EV with a 7second 0-60 actually doesnt feel as hair raising as an ICE car with the same 0-60 due to it being a constant acceleration rather than small bursts of fast, then slowing down as you get out of the optimal revs before you change gear.

i wonder why it is suddenly a problem now tho (i am being facetious) . 0-60 times have been going up since for ever. back when i was a nipper one of my (still) dream cars the lambo Countach had a 0-60 of around 6 seconds.... it was considered i guess the hyper car of its time.

back in 2011 I bought a nissan 350z for £12k. Dont get me wrong it was a fast car for its time but it wasnt super car fast.... but i reckon 0-60 and certainly on the twisties, put the same talented driver in both cars and i reckon the 350z would beat it.

as already said tho at least with most EVs (unless you buy a silly one) their top speeds are massively cut down.
 
0-60 times can be miss-leading. Many cars (like EVs) can get there quick but then the party trick is over. The top speed isn't all that high, it sort of self-limiting. The really quick stuff just keeps on pulling way beyond 70mph so gets to dangerous speeds really quickly.
 
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Nasher said:
0-60 times can be miss-leading. Many cars (like EVs) can get there quick but then the party trick is over. The top speed isn't all that high, it sort of self-limiting. The really quick stuff just keeps on pulling way beyond 70mph so gets to dangerous speeds really quickly.
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its not missleading at all..... the 0-60 time is the 0-60 time.

if people assume automatically a car with a 5s 0-60 automatically means it has a top speed of 155mph for instance... that is on them.

The biggest party trick an EV has imo is that i can drive to my parents, 200 miles away, and drive home again and the total round trip costs me £10

that is a hell of a party trick imo
 
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bigmike20vt said:
its not missleading at all..... the 0-60 time is the 0-60 time.

if people assume automatically a car with a 5s 0-60 automatically means it has a top speed of 155mph for instance... that is on them.

The biggest party trick an EV has imo is that i can drive to my parents, 200 miles away, and drive home again and the total round trip costs me £10

that is a hell of a party trick imo
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Plus how much in depreciation per month? :)
 
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