Are earnings too low / living costs getting too high??

[Psycho Sonny]

Really? to run her own shop she'd need a product to sell (and it would have to be something fairly original -as the area is fairly saturated when it comes to most small shops to the point some are having to close down due to not making enough money) and likely a lot of money and some business experience to set it up in the first place. I have no idea if she has hobbies that she is capable of turning into a job, etc. but knowing her if that was possible she'd be doing it already - she certainly isn't someone who just expects everything to come to her.

The reality is your ideas might work for some people but there is no blanket fix and a mix of circumstances and abilities and most of those ideas would barely bring in more than what she is earning now but at significant extra hassle and stress.

Learn a skill.

Have you got any idea how much women pay for make-up for special occasions? An asian make up artist can make around £500-£1000 for 3 hours work (cash in hand too). I even seen one turn up with 1 arm. So she did it literally single handedly.

All i hear is excuses. You need no premises as you do it in the clients home. All you need is a car, driving license, hair stuff and make up. Obviously you need to be good at doing hair and make up too. it's hardly a magical skill, most women do it everyday sometimes twice a day. So they have had plenty of practice to get good at it.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Just to add some anecdotal evidence to Sonny's point above, there's a single mother my girlfriend knows who's making anywhere from 2 to 4 grand a month doing hair extensions, that'll be nowhere near fulltime hours either.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

You cannot argue that the scheme is particularly fair and has created a healthy accommodation pricing. All well and good for your dad but allowing people to buy multiple houses they cannot afford without these generous loan and when they already have a place to live, make the chances of anyone else achieving this ever smaller.

It simply is not cyclical with the rate things are climbing. How long would someone who just started in your dads position today, take to be able to buy several places to let out with the way prices are climbing?

Not saying there are no opportunities out there, just that the playing field is not as level as people think.

 

[grudas]

We are in Kent right on the border of Surrey, West and East Sussex. 5 min drive in each direction and we're in the 4 counties. Lovely part of the world. Lots of amazing walks, countryside lifestyle, fantastic pubs, safe, quiet, large properties with big gardens/land and still get 80mb broadband

sounds spot on tbf! now to just motivate my gf to move away how long does commuting to central take you? I assume it's quite a massive expense every month too?

I was looking around merstham which seems to have some decent properties for around 350k which would be our max really.. thing is, 2-3 years down the line that 350k property will be 370k haha.

 

[mattyg]

You cannot argue that the scheme is particularly fair and has created a healthy accommodation pricing. All well and good for your dad but allowing people to buy multiple houses they cannot afford without these generous loan and when they already have a place to live, make the chances of anyone else achieving this ever smaller.

It simply is not cyclical with the rate things are climbing. How long would someone who just started in your dads position today, take to be able to buy several places to let out with the way prices are climbing?

Not saying there are no opportunities out there, just that the playing field is not as level as people think.

Start thinking of BTL's as a business. As thats what it should be. Or turn your Analogy onto car dealers. I bet 99.999% of ALL 2nd hand car dealers use credit to fund purchases for their stock

 

[Rroff]

Learn a skill.

Have you got any idea how much women pay for make-up for special occasions? An asian make up artist can make around £500-£1000 for 3 hours work (cash in hand too). I even seen one turn up with 1 arm. So she did it literally single handedly.

All i hear is excuses. You need no premises as you do it in the clients home. All you need is a car, driving license, hair stuff and make up. Obviously you need to be good at doing hair and make up too. it's hardly a magical skill, most women do it everyday sometimes twice a day. So they have had plenty of practice to get good at it.

It isn't like the person I'm talking about is just sitting around complaining - they've tried a few things but there are practical limitations both in what they are capable of and what is in demand in the area plus family considerations and so on it isn't as trivial as you are making out.

Many of the things you are suggesting BTW are already fairly saturated markets in the area with little potential for a newcomer to make a living from.

 

[mid_gen]

Learn a skill.

Have you got any idea how much women pay for make-up for special occasions? An asian make up artist can make around £500-£1000 for 3 hours work (cash in hand too). I even seen one turn up with 1 arm. So she did it literally single handedly.

All i hear is excuses. You need no premises as you do it in the clients home. All you need is a car, driving license, hair stuff and make up. Obviously you need to be good at doing hair and make up too. it's hardly a magical skill, most women do it everyday sometimes twice a day. So they have had plenty of practice to get good at it.

This is easy to trot out, but the reality is that increasingly most people are going to be priced out of the property market. Yes there are opportunities for individuals but collectively all these households on the left hand side can't just move to the right. There will always be *lots* of people on low incomes.

There's a buy-to-let-shaped wedge being driven between the two sides of the graph.

 

[Ayahuasca]

You cannot argue that the scheme is particularly fair and has created a healthy accommodation pricing. All well and good for your dad but allowing people to buy multiple houses they cannot afford without these generous loan and when they already have a place to live, make the chances of anyone else achieving this ever smaller.

It simply is not cyclical with the rate things are climbing. How long would someone who just started in your dads position today, take to be able to buy several places to let out with the way prices are climbing?

Not saying there are no opportunities out there, just that the playing field is not as level as people think.

Nothing in life is particularly fair, from day one if you're born with poor genes or into a poor family you're at odds of doing much with your life but a little self-discipline goes a long way.

Of course it's much more difficult today to save the amount needed for BTL deposits, but my father didn't do that well for himself and I'd gather even at 50 he was only on just above the quoted average salary in this thread, and my mother only worked part-time for a few years. They didn't inherit much money at all from their parents and most of the deposit for the BTL's came from withdrawing all they had put into premium bonds over the years.

Even then he didn't just buy dumps and rent them out in substandard conditions like many do to maximise profits, the first one he bought he overspent on time and money just to have the place in a condition he'd live in himself. It was then rented out to the daughter of a family friend for below market rate.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Start thinking of BTL's as a business. As thats what it should be. Or turn your Analogy onto car dealers. I bet 99.999% of ALL 2nd hand car dealers use credit to fund purchases for their stock

But second hand car dealers have not made buying into a first car harder. If anything, the sheer number of them due to the how many new cars are being bought and old ones being zip tied up for a cheap sale has made getting a car easier than ever.

Using credit to fund purchases is fine when it does not upset the balance of supply and demand.

Nothing in life is particularly fair, from day one if you're born with poor genes or into a poor family you're at odds of doing much with your life but a little self-discipline goes a long way.

it has only really been 20 years since the introduction. I am fine with small loans for buy to let but the the current situation has tipped the scales too much and only seem to be getting worse. I dont see why people are against more restrictions or regulations...

 

[Freefaller]

sounds spot on tbf! now to just motivate my gf to move away how long does commuting to central take you? I assume it's quite a massive expense every month too?

I was looking around merstham which seems to have some decent properties for around 350k which would be our max really.. thing is, 2-3 years down the line that 350k property will be 370k haha.

Merstham is quite nice, especially if you're able to get to the slight outskirts. Plus you're not far from LGW or M25 / M23 so lots of connectivity.

Commute to LBG is about 40-45mins which for me is fine. I get to read a book, do some work, sleep, or catch up on series.

I buy an annual ticket, most jobs offer an interest free loan, it's a lot more cost effective to buy an annual ticket, you save several hundreds of pounds. I actually have bought a first class ticket as I am pretty much guaranteed a seat even when the train is crowded (unless they declassify 1st class, but then I get a reimbursement anyway), and I get a power plug too.

 

[Rroff]

Yes, but whether it's Pawnless in the same job or he leaves and someone replaces him, the job is still paying the same, so the new person is still in a worse position than Pawnless was 17 years ago.

Which is kind of the point of the thread though a lot of people seem to be going off at a tangent - increasingly the lifestyle that traditionally would have gone with an occupation is less and less affordable - not just people being lazy or living beyond their means as such. Its alright saying well get a pay rise, promotion, new job/skills or whatever but that isn't looking at the bigger picture.

 

[Freefaller]

This is easy to trot out, but the reality is that increasingly most people are going to be priced out of the property market. Yes there are opportunities for individuals but collectively all these households on the left hand side can't just move to the right. There will always be *lots* of people on low incomes.

There's a buy-to-let-shaped wedge being driven between the two sides of the graph.

Problem with that graph is that it doesn't show if the household is a family, a single person, or if only 1 person works and the other is a stay at home parent.

Quite eye opening though that the average household income is so low though, more so just how many people are at £0!

Then again look how the number peaks at £50k+ so there are a lot of people who are very successful and earning well.

How do we shift people from the lower paid jobs to better paid jobs? I know some people don't want to help themselves, but I'm sure there are a lot of people in the lower end who are very keen/able to work harder and achieve more.

now I'm sure there's an argument that the house prices shouldn't be so high in the first place, but it is a supply and demand situation.

Are there still thousands of empty homes around the UK? I remember a few years back there were thousands upon thousands of vacant homes, but no one wanted to live/move in those places. You can't keep building homes in areas where people want to live, we also need to keep things balanced in terms of green belt, and some sustainability/ecology. Perhaps we need to build better apartment style buildings like they do in the states - having rented an apartment in NYC you forgot you were in a flat it was so spacious, rather then the plasterboard thin new builds?

 

[mid_gen]

Problem with that graph is that it doesn't show if the household is a family, a single person, or if only 1 person works and the other is a stay at home parent.

Obviously you can't read too much into it....there's no geographical information etc, but the point is to highlight what most people are living on. Household income is a pretty good measure when talking about house prices.

It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine a large chunk of people here are in the IT services industry which in most places offers a realistic path into that right-most bar after a few years of work *for a single person*. Most people I know and grew up with are in that bracket....it's easy to forget that's not how most people live and they should jolly well buck their ideas up and work harder.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I have shown you. you can buy a flat in Scotland for £10K a 2 bedroom for £15K, yes they aren't buckingham palace or in nice areas but it shows you, that you can buy a flat on less than 1 years wage. there are cheap homes available in the UK. people need to move or commute if they cannot afford their immediate area it's as simple as that really. So what if you have lived there for 20+ years and your family is there. My grandad moved from what is now known as Pakistan (formerly India and when he was born there it was India) to India (punjab) when he was 9 years old then to England in his early twenties on his own. He then moved from England to Scotland after his wife and son joined him years later.

You guys are complaining about having to move 50 miles away. get a grip seriously. cannot afford a house in that area and you want to buy a house. Either increase your income or move. complaining and moaning won't increase your income or get you a home. Make do with what you have and be happy. If your not happy then stop complaining and go out and get more money.

I would like to see how many people that are genuinely unhappy about their current situation and how much time they waste watching crap TV like Eastenders or on the internet. If they took that time and invested it elsewhere like a business it would be nothing lost to them but they may get large gains.

There are plenty of happy people out there earning less than £20K a year. they are content with what they have and enjoy it.

I have also shown you that a window cleaner or a make up artist / hairdresser can easily earn £40k a year. So i don't really see why those that are unhappy do something about it

 

[grudas]

I have shown you. you can buy a flat in Scotland for £10K a 2 bedroom for £15K, yes they aren't buckingham palace or in nice areas but it shows you, that you can buy a flat on less than 1 years wage. there are cheap homes available in the UK. people need to move or commute if they cannot afford their immediate area it's as simple as that really. So what if you have lived there for 20+ years and your family is there. My grandad moved from what is now known as Pakistan (formerly India and when he was born there it was India) to India (punjab) when he was 9 years old then to England in his early twenties on his own. He then moved from England to Scotland after his wife and son joined him years later.

You guys are complaining about having to move 50 miles away. get a grip seriously. cannot afford a house in that area and you want to buy a house. Either increase your income or move. complaining and moaning won't increase your income or get you a home. Make do with what you have and be happy. If your not happy then stop complaining and go out and get more money.

I would like to see how many people that are genuinely unhappy about their current situation and how much time they waste watching crap TV like Eastenders or on the internet. If they took that time and invested it elsewhere like a business it would be nothing lost to them but they may get large gains.

There are plenty of happy people out there earning less than £20K a year. they are content with what they have and enjoy it.

I have also shown you that a window cleaner or a make up artist / hairdresser can easily earn £40k a year. So i don't really see why those that are unhappy do something about it

I love how your world is so simple life is not just about house and money.

People have friends, connections, places they like to go to etc. So yeah moving to other side of the country can be life changing. I've seen people loose all their friends when moving far away. But I guess it's fine they've got a house.

You have a very simplified vision of life! reality is very different.

never mind easily earning 40k yes mate maybe by putting 14hr shifts 7/days a week. What if you have kids? what if you want to have a bit of out-of-work life? does that not matter? cmon.

 

[mid_gen]

I have shown you. you can buy a flat in Scotland for £10K a 2 bedroom for £15K, yes they aren't buckingham palace or in nice areas but it shows you, that you can buy a flat on less than 1 years wage. there are cheap homes available in the UK. people need to move or commute if they cannot afford their immediate area it's as simple as that really. So what if you have lived there for 20+ years and your family is there. My grandad moved from what is now known as Pakistan (formerly India and when he was born there it was India) to India (punjab) when he was 9 years old then to England in his early twenties on his own. He then moved from England to Scotland after his wife and son joined him years later.

You guys are complaining about having to move 50 miles away. get a grip seriously. cannot afford a house in that area and you want to buy a house. Either increase your income or move. complaining and moaning won't increase your income or get you a home. Make do with what you have and be happy. If your not happy then stop complaining and go out and get more money.

I would like to see how many people that are genuinely unhappy about their current situation and how much time they waste watching crap TV like Eastenders or on the internet. If they took that time and invested it elsewhere like a business it would be nothing lost to them but they may get large gains.

There are plenty of happy people out there earning less than £20K a year. they are content with what they have and enjoy it.

I have also shown you that a window cleaner or a make up artist / hairdresser can easily earn £40k a year. So i don't really see why those that are unhappy do something about it

In other words.....bend over and take it. Fine if that's your attitude to life.

Some of us don't want to put up with it. Some of us like living in a country where life is comfortable and housing is affordable. I'd actually rather not have to live abroad for that to happen.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Which is kind of the point of the thread though a lot of people seem to be going off at a tangent - increasingly the lifestyle that traditionally would have gone with an occupation is less and less affordable - not just people being lazy or living beyond their means as such. Its alright saying well get a pay rise, promotion, new job/skills or whatever but that isn't looking at the bigger picture.

that is the way the world works though.

so what are you suggesting then? we go into communism. where everyone in the UK lives in the same sized house. gets the same hourly rate no matter what job they do?

 

[dr_volki]

I have shown you. you can buy a flat in Scotland for £10K a 2 bedroom for £15K, yes they aren't buckingham palace or in nice areas but it shows you, that you can buy a flat on less than 1 years wage. there are cheap homes available in the UK. people need to move or commute if they cannot afford their immediate area it's as simple as that really. So what if you have lived there for 20+ years and your family is there. My grandad moved from what is now known as Pakistan (formerly India and when he was born there it was India) to India (punjab) when he was 9 years old then to England in his early twenties on his own. He then moved from England to Scotland after his wife and son joined him years later.

You guys are complaining about having to move 50 miles away. get a grip seriously. cannot afford a house in that area and you want to buy a house. Either increase your income or move. complaining and moaning won't increase your income or get you a home. Make do with what you have and be happy. If your not happy then stop complaining and go out and get more money.

I would like to see how many people that are genuinely unhappy about their current situation and how much time they waste watching crap TV like Eastenders or on the internet. If they took that time and invested it elsewhere like a business it would be nothing lost to them but they may get large gains.

There are plenty of happy people out there earning less than £20K a year. they are content with what they have and enjoy it.

I have also shown you that a window cleaner or a make up artist / hairdresser can easily earn £40k a year. So i don't really see why those that are unhappy do something about it

so how did your grandad cope with moving to different countries?
bet it wasn't easy. I've moved countries twice already, once with my mother and then the day i moved out from home. it's not as simple as you make it sound, some people can cope with it more easily than others.

showing us homes available for x amount of money proves nothing, there's no point moving up to Scotland for me if there aren't any jobs / jobs i'm qualified to do.

still my opinion is:
in the UK i feel like i get less for my money, where as in Switzerland it's different due to the salaries being more in line with the living costs.

 

[mid_gen]

still my opinion is:
in the UK i feel like i get less for my money, where as in Switzerland it's different due to the salaries being more in line with the living costs.

Undoubtedly. I keep an eye on property prices/job market back in the UK. I would have to make a big paycut and move into a shoebox if I went back at the moment.

 

[Rroff]

that is the way the world works though.

so what are you suggesting then? we go into communism. where everyone in the UK lives in the same sized house. gets the same hourly rate no matter what job they do?

I think you are missing the part I'm mostly focusing on - sure if you want a nicer lifestyle you have to move upwards somewhat - but as pay isn't rising inline with the cost of living and in some cases even stagnating it is building up a problem.