Are petrol stations having a laugh?

[~Mike~]

Tesco 99 might work out the best. I see a lot of classics filling up at my local one.



It closed and it was the last one. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-45435022

So yea we are having to import it, making E10 a big farse and false economy. There was talk of re-opening it but it hasn't happened yet.

We are pleased to confirm the Vivergo Fuels site in Hull will be re-opening following an announcement by the Department for Transport that E10 petrol – a cleaner, greener fuel – will be introduced at pumps up and down the country from September.

https://vivergofuels.com/news/viver...or-transport-mandate-e10-fuel-from-september/

 

[Nasher]

We are pleased to confirm the Vivergo Fuels site in Hull will be re-opening following an announcement by the Department for Transport that E10 petrol – a cleaner, greener fuel – will be introduced at pumps up and down the country from September.

https://vivergofuels.com/news/viver...or-transport-mandate-e10-fuel-from-september/

Starts in 2022. So until then it's going to have to be imported in big diesel tankers

But is one factory going to meet all the demand?

 

[tom_e]

And it’s got no ethanol in. Win !

So you're saying in theory this is best for my classic petrol car?

 

[~Mike~]

But is one factory going to meet all the demand?

As already said earlier there is more than one bio-ethanol plant in this country.

 

[Nasher]

As already said earlier there is more than one bio-ethanol plant in this country.

Ok wow then, 2 factories for the millions of petrol cars in the road

And where are they getting enough wheat etc supplies from? Abroad?

 

[Simon]

Ok wow then, 2 factories for the millions of petrol cars in the road

And where are they getting enough wheat etc supplies from? Abroad?

Do you think we get all our U.K. fuel from U.K. reserves and U.K. refineries ???

 

[~Mike~]

Ok wow then, 2 factories for the millions of petrol cars in the road

And where are they getting enough wheat etc supplies from? Abroad?

You're right I've never seen a field of wheat growing in the UK.

 

[Nasher]

You're right I've never seen a field of wheat growing in the UK.

We tend to use that for food. Even then wheat still needs to be imported to meet demand.

 

[tom_e]

I can see Nashers point which doesn't happen very often, it's another one of those things being touted as a good green change but if you're going to need to burn more of it due to it being slightly less economical or you need to ship in extra ethanol or find extra crops to create the ethanol or replace more parts on vehicles due to the ethanol damaging them is it really that much better by the end of it all.

 

[Simon]

I can see Nashers point which doesn't happen very often, it's another one of those things being touted as a good green change but if you're going to need to burn more of it due to it being slightly less economical or you need to ship in extra ethanol or find extra crops to create the ethanol or replace more parts on vehicles due to the ethanol damaging them is it really that much better by the end of it all.

No different to drax being turned into a wood pellet plant instead of coal. Renewable fuel ain’t it

 

[Nasher]

I can see Nashers point which doesn't happen very often, it's another one of those things being touted as a good green change but if you're going to need to burn more of it due to it being slightly less economical or you need to ship in extra ethanol or find extra crops to create the ethanol or replace more parts on vehicles due to the ethanol damaging them is it really that much better by the end of it all.

And the crops are intensively farmed, so I wonder if that damage is accounted for.

All they have done with this is create a new problem. But not really improved the old problem.

 

[Simon]

All U.K. fuel and oil comes from U.K. sources anyway right ?

 

[Haggisman]

All U.K. fuel and oil comes from U.K. sources anyway right ?

The point isn't that we now have to import fuel whereas we didn't before, the point is that we need to import more of it - e.g. if we previously imported 10 tankers' worth and now need 11 to meet the same demand, we are creating 1 tanker's worth of extra pollution - has that been accounted for in this "green" scheme? Not to mention as @tom_e said, the additional cars which are now going to get scrapped or need repairs due to damage caused by inappropriate fuel?

Anyway, thankfully my GF's Fiesta is OK, but I checked if my Octavia is compatible with E10, and sadly it isn't

Guess I better keep filling it with diesel instead

 

[Joe T]

The point isn't that we now have to import fuel whereas we didn't before, the point is that we need to import more of it - e.g. if we previously imported 10 tankers' worth and now need 11 to meet the same demand, we are creating 1 tanker's worth of extra pollution - has that been accounted for in this "green" scheme?

Depends on whether the maths says there is a net benefit. We are just guessing at the moment.

Not to mention as @tom_e said, the additional cars which are now going to get scrapped or need repairs due to damage caused by inappropriate fuel?

If a car is unsuitable for E10 I believe a change of fuel lines will usually eliminate the problem for many engines. No need to scrap a car for that.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

The point isn't that we now have to import fuel whereas we didn't before, the point is that we need to import more of it - e.g. if we previously imported 10 tankers' worth and now need 11 to meet the same demand, we are creating 1 tanker's worth of extra pollution - has that been accounted for in this "green" scheme? Not to mention as @tom_e said, the additional cars which are now going to get scrapped or need repairs due to damage caused by inappropriate fuel?

Nah we don't, driving is less and more people are migrating to electric vehicles. Thats the real green scheme.

 

[Haggisman]

Nah we don't, driving is less and more people are migrating to electric vehicles. Thats the real green scheme.

Absolutely - which begs the question why do this now when we're phasing out combustion cars in the next decade anyway?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

This has an instant effect on current vehicle I guess.

 

[Simon]

The point isn't that we now have to import fuel whereas we didn't before, the point is that we need to import more of it - e.g. if we previously imported 10 tankers' worth and now need 11 to meet the same demand, we are creating 1 tanker's worth of extra pollution - has that been accounted for in this "green" scheme? Not to mention as @tom_e said, the additional cars which are now going to get scrapped or need repairs due to damage caused by inappropriate fuel?

Anyway, thankfully my GF's Fiesta is OK, but I checked if my Octavia is compatible with E10, and sadly it isn't

Guess I better keep filling it with diesel instead

Why would we have to import 10% more fuel when we are doing a 1:1 substitution of a renewable fuel vs a fossil fuel. Less than 1% of UK car parc cant use E10.

 

[Haggisman]

Why would we have to import 10% more fuel when we are doing a 1:1 substitution of a renewable fuel vs a fossil fuel. Less than 1% of UK car parc cant use E10.

It lowers fuel economy, meaning more of it is needed to travel the same miles. 10% was just an example figure I used for simplicity, but I've read various sources which quote anywhere from 1% to 11.5%.

 

[fez]

Absolutely - which begs the question why do this now when we're phasing out combustion cars in the next decade anyway?

Because we need to do something now and lets be honest, we won't all be driving electric cars in 10 years. There is nowhere near the infrastructure, incentives or plan to make this happen. Electric cars are expensive, more people than ever have newer cars so aren't going to want to fork out again anytime soon for a car that is far less convenient than their current one and far more expensive. We couldn't charge one reliably, we have just bought a `18 plate car we want to run into the ground and we need 2 cars. If the government wants everyone to go electric they will need to massively subsidise them and give great scrappage and build a proper network of chargers. Oh and they will also need to upgrade the power grid massively to deal with the huge spike in power requirements that will occur.