Soldato
Next two decades, or longer.
Are petrol stations having a laugh?
- Thread starter tenofspades
- Start date
Next two decades, or longer.
Soldato
Indeed, which part of new cars do people not understand?
Ah yes. Let’s make up a number for simplicity and pick the top of the range. All fuels are E5 today anyway
Caporegime
In the end it will be hydrogen. Electric is just a stop gap.
Soldato
Soldato
Yep once we find a more efficient way to collect it that will be the future.
Batteries are actually pretty poor as an energy storage media, far to heavy.
Soldato
Collect? you meant 'make'.
Other thread for this anyway.
Other thread for this anyway.
Soldato
"e.g. if we previously imported X tankers' worth and now need X+1 to meet the same demand, we are creating 1 tanker's worth of extra pollution - has that been accounted for in this "green" scheme?"
happy?
The actual paper states
"Switching to E10 would reduce the CO2 emissions from a petrol vehicle by around 2% (in addition to the 2% savings we already achieve from the current use of E5). This, combined with an increase to overall renewable fuel targets, could cut overall transport CO2 emissions by a further 750,000 tonnes a year – the equivalent of taking around 350,000 cars off the road."
so rather than make stuff up. Read the original proposal. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/introducing-e10-petrol
"Switching to E10 would reduce the CO2 emissions from a petrol vehicle by around 2% (in addition to the 2% savings we already achieve from the current use of E5). This, combined with an increase to overall renewable fuel targets, could cut overall transport CO2 emissions by a further 750,000 tonnes a year – the equivalent of taking around 350,000 cars off the road."
so rather than make stuff up. Read the original proposal. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/introducing-e10-petrol
Some key points here I think. Going E10 actually reduces imports as U.K. producers can be viable. also octane benefit of e10 means you can use lower octane,higher enters density base fuels negating the impact
2.3 UK bioethanol sector
Overview
52. The UK currently has a bioethanol production capacity of around 1 billion litres per year, with two large biorefineries based in Humberside and Teesside and one smaller facility in Norfolk. To date, this capacity has regularly been underutilised. Currently, of the larger plants, one is operating at around half capacity, with the other mothballed due to poor market conditions.
53. Significant amounts of bioethanol supplied under the RTFO come from outside the UK. The most recent RTFO biofuel statistics (2017/18)9 indicate that UK feedstocks accounted for 217 million litres of the UK bioethanol supply (29% of the total UK bioethanol supply).
54. This trend is largely attributed to EU ethanol supply outstripping demand. The original investments made across Europe over the past decade were predicated on an assumption that ethanol demand would have increased more rapidly across the continent. As a result, in recent years, production
8 Lifecycle emissions savings includes subtracting emissions resulting from the production processes involved in producing the fuel. Carbon Budget accounting does not include this and therefore shows higher carbon savings. Both figures are provided to ensure they can be compared to other measures.
9 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/biofuel-statistics-year-10-2017-to-2018-report-6 [accessed 17/12/19] 10
capacity has outstripped demand creating challenging trading conditions in which UK plants have struggled to compete.
Improving market conditions
55. UK producers have been clear that were domestic demand to increase as a result of E10 introduction, it could help improve market conditions. Introducing E10 would approximately double the demand for ethanol in the UK.
56. This should also be considered alongside wider EU upturns in demand. E10 is being introduced in a number of EU countries, with demand for ethanol increasing across the continent as nations seek to meet EU Renewable Energy Directive targets.
57. UK producers have cautioned that if the UK does not introduce E10 it is likely the domestic industry may not remain viable.
2.3 UK bioethanol sector
Overview
52. The UK currently has a bioethanol production capacity of around 1 billion litres per year, with two large biorefineries based in Humberside and Teesside and one smaller facility in Norfolk. To date, this capacity has regularly been underutilised. Currently, of the larger plants, one is operating at around half capacity, with the other mothballed due to poor market conditions.
53. Significant amounts of bioethanol supplied under the RTFO come from outside the UK. The most recent RTFO biofuel statistics (2017/18)9 indicate that UK feedstocks accounted for 217 million litres of the UK bioethanol supply (29% of the total UK bioethanol supply).
54. This trend is largely attributed to EU ethanol supply outstripping demand. The original investments made across Europe over the past decade were predicated on an assumption that ethanol demand would have increased more rapidly across the continent. As a result, in recent years, production
8 Lifecycle emissions savings includes subtracting emissions resulting from the production processes involved in producing the fuel. Carbon Budget accounting does not include this and therefore shows higher carbon savings. Both figures are provided to ensure they can be compared to other measures.
9 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/biofuel-statistics-year-10-2017-to-2018-report-6 [accessed 17/12/19] 10
capacity has outstripped demand creating challenging trading conditions in which UK plants have struggled to compete.
Improving market conditions
55. UK producers have been clear that were domestic demand to increase as a result of E10 introduction, it could help improve market conditions. Introducing E10 would approximately double the demand for ethanol in the UK.
56. This should also be considered alongside wider EU upturns in demand. E10 is being introduced in a number of EU countries, with demand for ethanol increasing across the continent as nations seek to meet EU Renewable Energy Directive targets.
57. UK producers have cautioned that if the UK does not introduce E10 it is likely the domestic industry may not remain viable.
Really? A technology that requires large amount of electricity to be generated (so only really viable with nuclear or hydroelectric) which is then used to inefficiently create the hydrogen which then has to be transported either in tankers or in leaky pipelines, and then once you've got the hydrogen in the car you inefficiently turn in back into electricity and use it to charge a battery. If only there was an easy and efficient way of transferring electricity directly from its point of generation into the battery of a car.
The hydrogen tanks in the Mirai weigh nearly 100kg and have a design life of around 10years before they have to be replaced.
I believe he's talking about hydrogen combustion engines...ie, an engine which simply uses hydrogen as the fuel to burn, instead of diesel or petrol. Not hydrogen fuel cells.
Harry Metcalfe did a good video about them a few weeks ago. Battery power is excellent for domestic vehicles, but not practical for industrial or agricultural vehicles. Hydrogen combustion might be the answer.
Soldato
Eastern Russia would like to disagree. See the link I posted.
Caporegime
Yes that video is fantastic. People seem to forget that the world runs and works thanks to these massive machines we have. Battery power is simply not a viable option in these cases for at least 20 years.
Here in little old Britain people forget that the world is a lot bigger than our tiny little island and private vehicle use is miniscule compared to the commercial sector for emissions.
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Largely irrelevant. Small population and people have space to park and charge their cars.
Russian cities are going to be very difficult to implement EV.
I bet they can't drive from east to west in one though. Or north, or south, or anywhere out of their own local area...
SkodaMart
S
SkodaMart
I said this months ago, was branded a crank.
Nice to see a bit of common sense from the JCB guy.
Soldato
Jcb load doing work and not moving compared to a nice little car. Only on the internet 