Argentina withdraws from 2016 pact with UK over the Falklands, wants to restart negotiations regarding ownership.

Why would the Harriers have needed the range?
The idea was two fold, firstly show the global reach and secondly to try and restrict use of the runway. Loading a Harrier up with bombs is a sure way to limit their range. The harriers were used for PhotoRec where they didn't need heavy weapons loaded on.

Vulcan could also bomb from High Altitude, Harrier not so much.

H eavy
A ircraft
R equiring
R efuelling
I f
E xpecting
R ange
 
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One unpalatable fact was Margaret Thatcher got incalculably important help from the Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. It may seem amazing to younger people, brought up with a total abhorrence of dictators, that the Falklands war may well have gone a totally different way without Pinochet's assistance, at considerable risk to himself. It's well documented now, so I won't dwell on it here, but at the time it was a dark secret.
 
40+ years on, one of my few memories of the Falklands War that happened when I was a youngster, was the sinking of The Belgrano; our Harrier "jump jets" and their Mirage planes.

Wars are never great and we really could do without one now, to give this awful Tory government a tiny glimmer of holding on to power at the next GE.
Personally I would worry more about the deaths and casualties on both sides than whether it propped up a government.
 
One unpalatable fact was Margaret Thatcher got incalculably important help from the Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. It may seem amazing to younger people, brought up with a total abhorrence of dictators, that the Falklands war may well have gone a totally different way without Pinochet's assistance, at considerable risk to himself. It's well documented now, so I won't dwell on it here, but at the time it was a dark secret.

At this very moment with Russia top of the **** list, trade and cooperation continues with them. Russia launched an emergency spaceship to the ISS the other week and NASA attended the launch: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/soyuz-ap-nasa-international-space-station-russia-b2288603.html

And for all the whinging about China or middle eastern countries trade and cooperation is huge.

It just doesn't fit the image to admit we work closely with people and countries that we also spend a lot of time slagging off.
 
Perhaps we didn't need to back then as we also had assistance from the US.
French weren't too friendly with exocet support (no kill codes either ?) ... if it replayed today and islands had defences they had at that time would our aircraft carrier and glued submarines provide a more rapid victory,
who is kitting out the Argentinians now. (Iran , chinese ?....)
 
At this very moment with Russia top of the **** list, trade and cooperation continues with them. Russia launched an emergency spaceship to the ISS the other week and NASA attended the launch: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/soyuz-ap-nasa-international-space-station-russia-b2288603.html

And for all the whinging about China or middle eastern countries trade and cooperation is huge.

It just doesn't fit the image to admit we work closely with people and countries that we also spend a lot of time slagging off.

Very true, very true indeed.
 
who is kitting out the Argentinians now. (Iran , chinese ?....)

No-one at the moment, their Air Force is a shell of its former self, unable to keep many fast-jets flying (just 6 skyhawks available at last count) and we keep veto'ing the sales of any new fast-jet aircraft they try to buy.

Eventually I think they'll drop into the arms of China which keeps offering the J-10/JF-17 combo. If they eventually decide to go that way and spend a huge amount on rearming then I think that rebuilding of their military will be aided via foreign funds as that would keep a US ally (us) tied up far away from China.

It's all a moot-point anyway as effectively Argentina has absolutely no way to militarily take back the Falklands within this decade at the very least, probably the next 2 decades to be realistic, so I think that the "sabre-rattling/request to restart negotiations" again is for their own populations consumption rather than a genuine effort to find a way forward, even just a political one.
 
French weren't too friendly with exocet support (no kill codes either ?) ... if it replayed today and islands had defences they had at that time would our aircraft carrier and glued submarines provide a more rapid victory,
who is kitting out the Argentinians now. (Iran , chinese ?....)
France did help the UK with exocet. they carried out practice raids on the task force on the way down to show the Royal Navy what an attack looks like from a super etendard and how to best counter it. The remainder of the missiles that Argentina had ordered were on route, but mysteriosly the french supply ship encountered technical issues that meant it sat still for the duration of the war. I wish I could pick on the French, but they were a solid allie, even more than the U.S. who were busy trying to be the UK's and Argentina's friends at least at a political level. The US armed forces helped faster and probably more than they were supposed to.
 
Perhaps financially you could say an attack on any UK territory is also an attack on the UK itself and thus falling inside Article 5.
You'd need a lawyer to untangle the legalese falklands are overseas territory, the Channel Islands are a crown dependency and the Isle of Man has its own parliament so goodness knows what an attack on any would count as
 
We nicked the Falklands fair and square, and we beat the Argies when they tried to nick them off us. If they want another go, they'll need another war.
 
We nicked the Falklands fair and square, and we beat the Argies when they tried to nick them off us. If they want another go, they'll need another war.
Or a change of heart from the population which seems unlikely! The Argentinian government would be better off trying to bribe the population it would likely be cheaper and quicker than re-arming and attempting to re-take the islands.

The UK government really should be negotiating with Argentina over the future of the islands which are currently a significant drain on the public purse. We spent 16 years negotiating before the war and had Thatcher not won the ‘79 election a deal would likely have been struck. It’s been 40 years and we are spending 60m plus a year sustaining an island in the South Atlantic. The very minimum we should be doing is normalising relations with Argentina so the door is open not this ridiculous stand off.
 
Or a change of heart from the population which seems unlikely! The Argentinian government would be better off trying to bribe the population it would likely be cheaper and quicker than re-arming and attempting to re-take the islands.

The UK government really should be negotiating with Argentina over the future of the islands which are currently a significant drain on the public purse. We spent 16 years negotiating before the war and had Thatcher not won the ‘79 election a deal would likely have been struck. It’s been 40 years and we are spending 60m plus a year sustaining an island in the South Atlantic. The very minimum we should be doing is normalising relations with Argentina so the door is open not this ridiculous stand off.

The negotiations before the war were against the will of the population and it's only become more hardened.

It's not in their interests to vote themselves into being part of Argentina so any future agreement will go back to the original plan of cutting the islands off and ignoring the kicking and screaming and pleading.
 
The negotiations before the war were against the will of the population and it's only become more hardened.

It's not in their interests to vote themselves into being part of Argentina so any future agreement will go back to the original plan of cutting the islands off and ignoring the kicking and screaming and pleading.
If you read the history of the negotiations there was a time when the population were onside under the labour governments negotiations and they were open to a long lease back deal with transition of sovereignty to Argentina. Travel between the islands and Argentina was easy and kids were enrolling schools and colleges on the mainland. It was only later that this position changed when the next negotiating team took over and the Tory back benches started stirring that things went south.

Either way we should be negotiating a sensible position with Argentina even if it doesn’t mean seeding sovereignty in the short term, the two countries relationship on the falklands is essential still a war footing which is laughable 40 years later.
 
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You'd need a lawyer to untangle the legalese falklands are overseas territory, the Channel Islands are a crown dependency and the Isle of Man has its own parliament so goodness knows what an attack on any would count as

If they pose a threat to the UK economy, which they would since we'd be obligated to defend such territory even if it wasn't strictly ours, the invasion of a close neighbour such as those would be unacceptable.
 
The idea was two fold, firstly show the global reach and secondly to try and restrict use of the runway. Loading a Harrier up with bombs is a sure way to limit their range. The harriers were used for PhotoRec where they didn't need heavy weapons loaded on.

Vulcan could also bomb from High Altitude, Harrier not so much.

H eavy
A ircraft
R equiring
R efuelling
I f
E xpecting
R ange

I've no idea what your talking about. The Harriers did attack the airport with bombs and cluster. The GR harrier entire purpose is to drop bombs on things.

The BlackBuck raids while amazing airmanship were of dubious value. Great book though.
 
The idea was two fold, firstly show the global reach and secondly to try and restrict use of the runway. Loading a Harrier up with bombs is a sure way to limit their range. The harriers were used for PhotoRec where they didn't need heavy weapons loaded on.

Vulcan could also bomb from High Altitude, Harrier not so much.

H eavy
A ircraft
R equiring
R efuelling
I f
E xpecting
R ange
Really it was more of a wee’ing contest between the services the RAF desperately wanted to get involved especially as the reasoning for us not replacing our aircraft carriers was that the RAF said they could project force globally. They burnt an incredible amount of fuel and money to achieve one limited if stunningly impressive success. The follow ups to the initial run achieved next to nothing beyond demonstrating our ability to project non nuclear force to the Argentine mainland if required. It is an endless debate, was blackbuck necessary? Were the harriers used effectively? Did the task force need to sit so far out to sea? It’s why it makes such a great topic of conversation and debate the falklands war was full of what ifs, almost a and debatable choices spurred by inter force rivalries some of which had tragic consequences like the needless loss or Sir Galahad and those on board. The one good thing is it is not happening again anytime soon and the advent of the submarine launched cruise missile combined with the presence of typhoons on the islands swings the balance massively against Argentina.
 
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Argentina couldn't stage an invasion of the Falklands in 2023 by the way, their military is in such a poor shape. I think a single F-35 could shoot down the entire Argentine airforce, and that's not an exaggeration. They have less than 10 operational fighter aircraft, I doubt they have any pilots with combat experience or flying any significant hours. They're no longer any threat whatsoever.
 
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