Ashes thread - England vs Australia * SPOILERS *

Mad old tory said:
Agree with everything apart from Bell, Kev. He got a couple of good scores, only worry was he wasn't able to convert them to 100s. Thing is, he's still very young (25?) and has time to mature. We need to stick with him, Cook and Pietersen and we'll have a very good middle order. Would love to see Vaughany back captaining and opening if possible, with Cook, Bell and Pietersen at 3,4 and 5. Wondering whether we should drop a bowler and have 6 batsmen, Fred, wicky and three bowlers? The 5th bowler was rarely used this series, whoever it was. Bell, KP and Vaughan can all be used as part time bowlers. If we use Colly as the seventh batsmen, he can bowl too.
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What about Tresco? Him and strauss are a decent openng partnership and he is better than Collingwood. My ideal England lineup would be
Strauss
Tresco
Cook
Vaughan
KP
Bell
Flintoff
Reed
Panesar
Harmisson
Simon Jones
 
weringo said:
What about Tresco? Him and strauss are a decent openng partnership and he is better than Collingwood. My ideal England lineup would be
Strauss
Tresco
Cook
Vaughan
KP
Bell
Flintoff
Reed
Panesar
Harmisson
Simon Jones
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KP should be made 3/4 in the batting order imo

Tres
Strauss the openers...

Thats if Tresco will get over his mental illness or whatever it is.... If he doesnt then..

Strauss
Cook
KP
Bell
Vaughan

just the first 4 batting.

Id take Harmison out for Hoggard too....
 
This 5-0 win wasn't down to an amazing australian performance, yes they were very good but they were made to look almost like super heros by the absolute diabolic display by England. There is no question about it that Australia are the best team in the world, they gave it their all and this time round against England they were especially hyped up to regain the ashes, but England didn't even put up any sort of a fight. I think Bangladesh or Zimbabwe would have put up more of a fight tbh and probably not lost 5-0.

Some of the England players seriously need to look at themselves, especially Harmison. I agree with the comments above, its absolutely mind boggling how Flintoff can turn around and say he's happy with the teams performance :confused: England are ranked the number 2 test side in the world (just noticed its number 3 now), but in this whole series I don't think they showed anything. Yes the odd player hit a century but out of 10 innings come on? They are professional cricketers, the odd flukey century is bound to come now and again.

Some big changes need to be made, because quite frankly that performance was unacceptable.
 
Tres probably won't play for England again I don't think. Vaughan is a natural opener and has scored almost all of his big innings there, I think it's time for him to return to opening with Cook at 3 and Bell at 4.
 
Fletcher said this...

"We're in a better position than we were the last time we were here when we lost 4-1," he said.

"There's a young group of cricketers here who performed at the highest level in other conditions. I just feel they just need to play together as a unit for longer.

"Even though they lost 5-0, they were competitive. They do have a belief they can do it."
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/6236469.stm

What's he been smoking?

So both he and Flintoff seem to be quite happy with the England performance :confused:
 
Probably just don't want to criticize players in public but I'd rather they kept their mouth shut than spout garbage like that. I remember him saying "if it ain't broke don't meddle with it" during one of his interviews half way through the series. Couldn't believe what he was saying considering what team he had just selected for the first two tests after the 3-0 series win.

I agree about Trescothick probably not playing again, he has problems and no one knows if they will be sorted out, especially if he will ever tour again so for now he can't be considered IMO.

I liked Cook at 3 during the summer and Vaughan's best position is to open the innings. So this could be the opportunity to stick him back opening the innings. The right hand, left hand combination also gives the opening bowlers something to think about.

Somebody's got to make way for Vaughan and its gotta be Collingwood for me at the moment. Good player but Bell in the long run has more natural talent and is getting better with playing more.

My team would be:

Strauss
Vaughan (c)
Cook
Pietersen
Bell
Flintoff
Read / Davies
Broad / Simon Jones (depending on his fitness)
Panesar
Harmison
Hoggard

We've played the 5 bowlers for sometime and thats a major reason for our success. With Flintoff now having problems with his ankle we need the other 4 bowlers to make sure we have a chance of getting 20 wickets.
 
dirtydog said:
Fletcher said this...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/6236469.stm

What's he been smoking?

So both he and Flintoff seem to be quite happy with the England performance :confused:
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I know how you feel dirtydog. This whole series for England has been shameful. I have no idea what Fletcher is on about. Really, England have been competitive for maybe a session or two, but then we blow it. :mad: :mad:

Australia have been a far superior team and I think even with a fully fit side, we still would have lost the Ashes. However, England have contributed much to their own destruction.

Fletcher seriously needs to consider a career change. He has made so many mistakes, and for him to go on about how "competitive" we were is just delusional.

Australia went to this series with something to prove. Not only that they were the best side in the world, but that they were better by quite a margin. I felt when we went out there onto the field we took this attitude that we could simply do what we did in 2005, with no real preparation. There was no real desire, no real passion and ruthlessness as the Aussies showed. It just goes to show how badly hurt the Aussies were after the 2005 series. They didn't just want to beat us, they wanted to completely humiliate the English team.

When Australia were on the backfoot, the would step up and claw their way back into the game. This is contrast to England who simply crumpled under any pressure.

I suppose we could almost endlessly go on about the number of mistakes England made. However, it is important that we take a valuable lesson from Australia on how to play 5 solid days of cricket.

We must rebuild, and an intergral part of their preparation should be a strong desire to win the Ashes back. I have no doubt Australia will be passionate about trying to retain the Ashes with a bunch of youngsters, so we shouldn't take it lightly. :)

-Chimpdaddy-
 
I think a better chance of getting 20 wickets would be to play 4 bowlers who are fit and in form, instead of holding established players in such an untouchable high regard, HOPING that they will eventually deliver the goods.

Harmsion has been absolutely crap for a long time now and his work ethic and attitude this series has been exposed for what it is; absolutely shocking. Yet you still want him in the side? Its just madness. We're far too lenient with these buggers.

I want Flintoff and Harmison dropped. If they can regain fitness and form then we should consider bringing them back into the side. No one should be untouchable and no one should be secure of a place in the squad because of their past performances and their populism, irrespective of fitness and form.
 
Dropping Harmisson would be a good idea, then we will see if has the desire to find some form again and work his way back into the side, atm he seems to be an unquestionable choice even though he has been rubbish.
 
I agree about dropping Harmison, he has been living off past glories for too long. Also his heart doesn't seem to be in it on tours, because he gets homesick is that right? Whatever the reason is for it, he seems to lack the focus and determination needed of a world class test bowler.
 
You cant jut go dropping people, in the belief this will turn their performances around. That`s the sort of bankrupt motivational psychology that loses teams great players. Even the Aussies have a history of persistence when the talent needs nurturing.

Hopefully the powers that be can ignore most of this reactionary carp.
 
I think Vaughn needs to get some more cricket under his belt before waltzing straight back into the team. What with injuries and central contracts he's hardly played much serious cricket since the Ashes - obviously we need him back, but I just hope the powers that be actually let him get in some games for Yorkshire. Obviously the problem is that aside from ODIs he won't get much of an opportunity before the WIndies visit.

As for Collingwood I'm not sure I'd be so quick to discard him, aside from KP he was arguably our best batsman in the ashes and he also offers a lot in the field, plus the ability to turn his arm over if required. I'm not suggesting that the latter two should be deciding factors but it certainly doesn't do any harm providing he is getting the runs as well.

Tresco is an interesting one in that as I predicted a few months back ( http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7810505&postcount=380 ) his mental/personal problems caused him to pull out of the Ashes. I think that in terms of talent, he's good enough for England, but the selectors will likely want to try and move forward and stick with Cook. Along with Strauss and Vaughn that gives us 3 who can open meaning that we can afford to leave Tresco by the wayside.

What I would say regarding the defeat is that while there is obviously room for improvement, we have to respect the fact that the current (former) Australian team is exceptional and their whole focus is on winning matches. They score runs at a startling rate which puts them in a position to take 20 wickets. I remember seeing some stats for Ponting's captaincy and he had something like 75%+ win ratio which is phenomanally good when you consider how many draws other sides are involved in.
 
harmison has 'retired' from one day cricket, convenient for the selectors.

rush in another out of form player to steady the side, then again freddie is not a captain.

so will the queen of australia be bestowing honours on this legendary australian team?
 
Another disaster coming right up for England in this 20-20 game Australia scored 221-5 off their 20 overs :eek: 14 sixes and James Anderson got tonked 4 overs 1-64!!

So only 11 per over required, easy :p
 
they had gilly and ponting wired up..like in england..also vaughn to.. nixon played well..shame he gets his pension soon. think we`ll be struggling in the limited overs comp.. seeing the kiwi`s and england,and aussies and england in adelaide in 2 weeks.. hope for 2 good games.. heres to praying.. :cool:
 
Good to see Vaughan come back and score some runs. Twenty-twenty is a bit of a lottery really, although dropping catches like we did obviously didn't help. At least we got over 100, looked at one point like we might struggle to do that! Only thing that bothers me is that our players refuse to play themselves in. Ok it's more difficult in twentytwenty, but better to play a bit conservatively for the first few balls and then go for it, rather than go for the big shots right from the off, 6 singles in an over is better than a six first ball and out second!!
 
Mad old tory said:
Twenty-twenty is a bit of a lottery really...
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It is yeah, but only when its two evenly matched sides. If England and Australia had ten 20-20 games I think England would be lucky to win one tbh.

Highest ever 20-20 score set today by Australia. The highlights were good, 6'ers all over the show, from the Australian innings ofcourse ;)
 
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