Asking someone where they are from

fez said:
Basically my point is that you can have two people engaging in a conversation who take completely different things away from it and neither one of them is in the wrong despite both parties feeling aggrieved or offended despite none being intentioned.
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Ultimately, it comes down to this. I rather not go through life assuming every negative interaction or comment I find a bit left is down to racism or prejudice. Granted I have had my fair share of genuinely racist interactions over the years but I can brush that crap off.

I never want anyone to feel like they can't ask anyone what their persons family history looks like or originated from. Often you'll get really interesting stories. I love when some asks me about my family heritage because it's actually got a few cool stories within in (Due to the whole enslavement thing it's quite hard to really trace our family tree but we do know that our direct ancestors were involved in the Maroon war and we still have family residing in Flagstaff today. It's even the name of our family bakery)

It's just wording is important and if someone says they're from X and you insist on asking the same question that would insist they're not telling the truth, it gets frustrating when you do the same dance a few times.
 
Jono8 said:
I think many are not overtly or even knowingly/consciously racist. They just have a racist viewpoint ingrained in how they see the world (obviously not uncommon in a woman her age)

This was apparent in the woman's line of questioning.
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Thats very much a can of worms though. Thats like unconscious bias etc. Largely unprovable in almost every case and used far too often as a stick to browbeat someone into feeling bad and dismissing them.

I have no idea how racist she is. This interaction gives absolutely no definitive proof of anything though.

Junglist said:
Ultimately, it comes down to this. I rather not go through life assuming every negative interaction or comment I find a bit left is down to racism or prejudice. Granted I have had my fair share of genuinely racist interactions over the years but I can brush that crap off.
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People are a product of their experiences which is why this is so hard. We also can't expect people not to be affected by a lifetime of this.

Junglist said:
It's just wording is important and if someone says they're from X and you insist on asking the same question that would insist they're not telling the truth, it gets frustrating when you do the same dance a few times.
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Agreed, I just really dislike the current model of "you will learn from your small mistake by a very public lynching and if you are really lucky you will lose your job and be a social pariah". I would like to see people treated with compassion unless they are very clearly being a complete asshat. Far too many people seem to delight in people being "taught a lesson" rather than just spoken to a encouraged to see their mistake.

This woman is 83 and has the eyes of the world on her, had to step down from her job and plenty of people will no longer want any association with her. Thats a horrible thing to happen to anyone let along someone in their 80s and yet people are celebrating this. People who think they are good people. Its astonishing.
 
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BowdonUK said:
If you was born in India, as many British people were at one time, would you have been offended if a local indian guy asked where you was from?
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I actually think is a brilliant example, of people trying to find excuses to justify what happened.

The local Indian guy in the early 20th century would be educated enough to speak English to be able to ask the question, but not know where the white people in his country were from?
 
My 2p:

* Poor, insensitive choice of words from SH for sure, but if she'd have asked what the person's heritage was, or where her ancestors were from, would that also have been racist? And whilst its true that question would be unlikely to be asked to a white person, that is not because its racist its simply because they are clearly black. In the same way, one might expect someone in a wheelchair to be asked what happened, or someone with an unusual accent to be asked where they are from (white or not).

* The charity that the black person was from - Sistah Space - is that not racist? Look at how its spelt. Its a play on a pronunciation of a word that is only made by certain heritage of people with a particular accent type. So that also is racist.
 
fez said:
Agreed, I just really dislike the current model of "you will learn from your small mistake by a very public lynching and if you are really lucky you will lose your job and be a social pariah". I would like to see people treated with compassion unless they are very clearly being a complete asshat. Far too many people seem to delight in people being "taught a lesson" rather than just spoken to a encouraged to see their mistake.
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Agreed, but the Tribe needs to show its allegiance and one the ways it does that is by destroying unbelievers. I find it sickening that there are large numbers of people who try to present themselves caring and thoughtful who merrily pile on to ruin the lives of people they don't know over minor events that often only they and their fellow travellers find "problematic".

I suspect I may be insufficiently moral to appreciate the good in their work:rolleyes:
 
This idea she’s 83 and doesn’t know better doesn’t wash with me. She has been around and watched the world change. She’s been through the civil rights movement, gay rights, and pretty much every other social movement of the 20th century. She has done so whilst being around the tops of power and influence. She has learnt nothing, not because of her age but because of her desire not to.

It’s the same daft argument “my 60 year old mum can’t use online GP services as it’s technology”. She’s the same one arguing on Facebook…

Age is no longer an excuse for poor treatment of others based on outdated ideas.
 
danlightbulb said:
My 2p:

* Poor, insensitive choice of words from SH for sure, but if she'd have asked what the person's heritage was, or where her ancestors were from, would that also have been racist? And whilst its true that question would be unlikely to be asked to a white person, that is not because its racist its simply because they are clearly black. In the same way, one might expect someone in a wheelchair to be asked what happened, or someone with an unusual accent to be asked where they are from (white or not).

* The charity that the black person was from - Sistah Space - is that not racist? Look at how its spelt. Its a play on a pronunciation of a word that is only made by certain heritage of people with a particular accent type. So that also is racist.
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My 2p

1 - The problem is when she kept on pressing.

2 - Don't do the 2nd thing, deflecting. That's what 5 years old do when they get caught stealing cookies "Mum, but Kevin stole some too!"
 
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Alice In Wonderland said:
Fulani's response of "They didn't leave any records" was fairly rude too.

So neither of them actually come across particularly well!
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Why is that a rude response? Often it's the truth. For those of us who are descendants from people who were enslaved it's very hard to trace back your family tree to multiple generations. Many records were not kept beyond 'stock'. So her saying they didn't leave any records is just a reflection of the truth. Why is that rude? It may be an uncomfortable truth but it is a the truth and not rude.

Now had she directly accused the lady who asked the question that there are no records due to her directly, sure, that would be rude.

fez said:
Agreed, I just really dislike the current model of "you will learn from your small mistake by a very public lynching and if you are really lucky you will lose your job and be a social pariah". I would like to see people treated with compassion unless they are very clearly being a complete asshat. Far too many people seem to delight in people being "taught a lesson" rather than just spoken to a encouraged to see their mistake.
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Yeah completely agree with that. People need to feel comfortable to learn and ask questions without the fear of being put to the court of public opinion. The only way people can learn more is through communication. I don't think the lady is outrightly racist. She may have some outdated views of her time but that doesn't necessarily mean she is a bad person.

Sooner or later I'm going to be the one with outdated views and I'll need educating on whats right/wrong in tomorrows world.
 
If i saw a someone dressed in what appears to be traditional bright african clothing(not sure of the name) I would probably ask where the origin of said clothing/person is from?

Whats the problem..
 
danlightbulb said:
My 2p:

* Poor, insensitive choice of words from SH for sure, but if she'd have asked what the person's heritage was, or where her ancestors were from, would that also have been racist? And whilst its true that question would be unlikely to be asked to a white person, that is not because its racist its simply because they are clearly black. In the same way, one might expect someone in a wheelchair to be asked what happened, or someone with an unusual accent to be asked where they are from (white or not).

* The charity that the black person was from - Sistah Space - is that not racist? Look at how its spelt. Its a play on a pronunciation of a word that is only made by certain heritage of people with a particular accent type. So that also is racist.
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A charity for a specific cause is racist is it?

Women's charities: sexist?
Children's charities: ageist?
Animal charities: racist against humans?
Human rights charities: racist again animals?

Seems really a stupid way for racists to try and equate something that is perfectly fine to racism.
 
Ahleckz said:
This idea she’s 83 and doesn’t know better doesn’t wash with me. She has been around and watched the world change. She’s been through the civil rights movement, gay rights, and pretty much every other social movement of the 20th century. She has done so whilst being around the tops of power and influence. She has learnt nothing, not because of her age but because of her desire not to.
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Or perhaps, she is just a little stubborn and met with another stubborn person and was being stubborn. What she did wasn't that bad despite what people seem to be suggesting.

Ahleckz said:
It’s the same daft argument “my 60 year old mum can’t use online GP services as it’s technology”. She’s the same one arguing on Facebook…

Age is no longer an excuse for poor treatment of others based on outdated ideas.
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If you want to go down this route that fine but...

Theres no excuse not to be able to cook
There no excuse to not be financially sound
Theres no excuse not to be able to budget
Theres no excuse for being overweight
There no excuse not to know how to do literally anything

And yet we make excuses every day for people who struggle with these things.
 
Bassmansam said:
If i saw a someone dressed in what appears to be traditional bright african clothing(not sure of the name) I would probably ask where the origin of said clothing/person is from?

Whats the problem..
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How would you ask that question? Would you reject their answer and ask the exact same thing again but this time ask them 'no really?'
 
Junglist said:
Sooner or later I'm going to be the one with outdated views and I'll need educating on whats right/wrong in tomorrows world.
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And on that day I will be there for you if we both haven't been killed on our bikes :p
 
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