But you don't know the exact words used and it's still not clear why it's "racist"?
Asking someone where they are from
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But you don't know the exact words used and it's still not clear why it's "racist"?
Which this one isn't, so that isn't relevant.
Soldato
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You lot keep going on about her dress yet SH tried the same stuff with a non white guy in a suit.
Soldato
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And i said, the act it self was mildly racist not the Lady H is a racist.
Continuing past that point, with the specific line of questioning was all of the above in my opinion.
Does a black person have to know the exact tracing of where their ancestors came from Africa? I don't see how that is being obtuse or giving attitude. Even if she did know and didn't want to tell this person she has just met, that was a perfectly polite way of answering.
Already have.
It is. so it is.
That wasn't the question I asked you. Your disingenuous nature is beginning to overflow.
You're having a hard time replying accurately, I recal in that same post I'd clarified my question to you further but you didn't want to quote that part as it shows how poor your reply was.
Now you appear upset that I didn't reply to your strange post, and appear to be doubling down on your absurdity.
I've made many valid points, if you wish to debate any of those please do, but quote me correctly and ensure you understand my post if you do.
So what? He also had a non-British name AFAIK in that interaction she asked once and didn't bother. In this one there was something resembling national dress so it seems like she tried to clarify "No, what part of Africa are you from?".
Hahaha where? You keep showing something was rude, but appear unable to show the racist part.Does a black person have to know the exact tracing of where their ancestors came from Africa? I don't see how that is being obtuse or giving attitude. Even if she did know and didn't want to tell this person she has just met, that was a perfectly polite way of answering.
Already have.
Soldato
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The issue I have with it, is that is it racist only because the other person was black. I.e if that conversation had happened with a white person then it's just rude but if the person is black then its racist.
The issue with that is it makes the presence of the black person the defining factor in whether an act is racist, not the act itself.
Without proving intent, it is not right to throw around accusations of racism.
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Soldato
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I doubt she would have continued the conversation to that point with someone who was white. Even if they were in African clothes and answered her in normal English, that they were born in the UK. I think that would have been the end of it.
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I think you are misunderstanding the argument again.
If it was with a white person, with an "English" name (whatever that means these days), that conversation absolutely 100% would not have happened. I guarantee you that.
The racism comes from the wording used in enquiring about her heritage.
Saying "where are you really from" implies heavily that she cannot be from the UK or British and that she actually is from somewhere else.
Saying "Your people" implies that her people cannot be British or come from the UK.
The France thing is odd too as that implies that she must have at some point lived somewhere or spent time somewhere else.
The racism is the implication that because she is black and/or has an african sounding name, she cannot really be British.
The issue, is that the wording used by SH implies that a black person/someone with a foreign name cannot identify as being British/from the UK and still must always be considered as from elsewhere. Where is the cut off on someone being able to be considered really from Britain?
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It was being obtuse because it was a follow-up question attempting to clarify what is being asked and she got a curt response; the context is Lady SH has seen what she's wearing + seen her name badge with an African name on it ergo she's just curious.
The gist of it is that she was curious about her heritage and aksed a few times and they got there in the end.
It's not. This isn't an abstract debate on linguistics. Assuming one person's recollection is a transcript absolutely accurate in every word, then picking out a couple of words in isolation and applying a predetermined interpretation to them is not how any reasonable person assesses the meaning of something.
How was it curt?
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I think we can all agree that it was a truely traumatic experience, and probably the most racist thing to happen to anyone, ever.
Definitely warrants the 50 pages.
Definitely warrants the 50 pages.
But she didn't have an English name and she was dressed up in a particular way... Even so white British people get asked where they're from.
So it's just projection then... it's clear she wasn't talking about citizenship so that implication is just false. Obviously, anyone of any race/ethnicity can be British. They're not necessarily indigenous British though (potentially partially if mixed race) thus the question of where her people are from or rather what her heritage was.
I'm sorry but i completely disagree.
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SH: “Well, you must know where you’re from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?”
Still don't get that bit, the cynical side of me interprets that as i spent time in France doesn't make me French. As in you spent time in the UK but that doesnt make you British.
Still don't get that bit, the cynical side of me interprets that as i spent time in France doesn't make me French. As in you spent time in the UK but that doesnt make you British.
It's almost like you're all having two different discussions.
One about whether specifically asking a black person "no, where are you really from?" and implying you don't consider that they can be British is racist - this discussion is only relevant if you assume the transcript is correct because the discussion only exists in the first place if the specific interaction and the words used are taken to be correct.
The other discussion is about whether its racist to question someone's origins/heritage in general terms, whereby the specifics of the interaction are less key because you're talking principles rather than specific language used.
My personal take is that repeatedly questioning someone with questions like "no, where are you really from?" is potentially rude, as the specific language can imply the original answer was a lie or that person is being evasive. If the underlying reason for not accepting the original answer is rooted in the fact the person is black, it enters the realms of potentially being racist.
One about whether specifically asking a black person "no, where are you really from?" and implying you don't consider that they can be British is racist - this discussion is only relevant if you assume the transcript is correct because the discussion only exists in the first place if the specific interaction and the words used are taken to be correct.
The other discussion is about whether its racist to question someone's origins/heritage in general terms, whereby the specifics of the interaction are less key because you're talking principles rather than specific language used.
My personal take is that repeatedly questioning someone with questions like "no, where are you really from?" is potentially rude, as the specific language can imply the original answer was a lie or that person is being evasive. If the underlying reason for not accepting the original answer is rooted in the fact the person is black, it enters the realms of potentially being racist.