Asking someone where they are from

Well this one case aside I think it's worth discussing the principles. Otherwise this keeps happening and every time it does we have a battle trying to determine if it was or wasn't racist.
 
Given how, at the very least, the interaction was awkward and hostile i think she had every right to complain. Buckingham Palace also thought it was enough to warrant Lady H resigning and also warranted it enough to apologise. Clearly something was a amiss unless you think its all to appease the boogeymen woke left brigade.
 
Last edited:
danlightbulb said:
If the above is true then there was racist intent and SH is implicitly racist. I'll accept that argument. There is no middle ground, if SH would only ask black people the question then she is racist. If not then she isn't.




There isn't the evidence to gaurantee that Jono, it's your view. See my response above to Craterloads. If this is true, SH is implicitly racist, there is no middle ground. But we need to prove it.




However factually it's true, NF heritage is not British. African names do not originate from Britain. If SH was simply trying to determine heritage (in a rude way I accept) then the conversation makes sense. In this case it's not racist.
Click to expand...

It doesnt matter she is british. SH was trying to imply heritage because black people arent british. It is the same old conversation from ignorant people. You cant be british you are black.

Wheres that Lammy clip where the old women actually says that to him?



'Where are you really from' is a racist trope it is a simple as that.
 
Last edited:
Jono8 said:
I think in the context of the conversation it was derogatory, as she had already answered that she was British and from the UK.

To then ask where she was "really" from and where "your people" are from is essentially saying that she was not correct.

I'm bemused as to how people cannot see that. She was asked where she was from, and answered. She was then asked where she was "really" from. That just completely implies that she cannot be from Britain in SH's eyes.

It is racist thing to say, but i don't know whether SH is an overtly racist person. Potentially i think she clearly thinks in old fashioned ways and cannot understand that someone who is black and who has an african sounding name can be from Britain.
Click to expand...

Except in all of this, the facts are true that NF heritage and ancestory is not British. So whilst we can all accept the line of questioning, even bordering on interrogation, was there, it was actually to ascertain the history.

I cant see how that is racist. Its rude yes, its crass yes. But if something is factual can it be racist to ask about it, even to push on it? SH never said to NF, "you are not British". Some of you are reading that between the lines.

To be derogatory to someone means saying things that aren't true or are an insult. I don't see any insults in the conversation, at least not overt ones by our standards. If I take something you say as an insult when its not meant to be one, that's on me.

I agree the use of the word 'really' could, if emphasised in a certain way, come across as belittling. But we still don't know whether that belittling was because SH didn't like black people or had a different view about black people. That's what racism is and we can't prove it from the conversation.
 
Last edited:
Jono8 said:
The conversation went how it did absolutely because she was black.

Do you think she would have walked up to a random white person, and after asking them where they were from and being told the UK, she would have then proceeded to ask them where they were really from and where their people were from?

If you do, then you have wild imagination.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this.
I have many a time been asked while abroad where I actually come from if I say Britain.
I was constantly asked when I lived in Nigeria, nobody was being racist towards me.
I've also asked white work colleagues if they have answered East European or Poland etc.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Is she british if her heritage outweighs that?
Click to expand...
Im not sure what you mean by this question.

I suppose to be completely scientific about it we would need to define how far back heritage goes. Or leave that up to the individual to decide for themselves. In which case clearly NF was clearly happy to embrace her African heritage, so it's not like she was trying to put it behind her and it got dragged up by SH against NF's will.
 
Tony Edwards said:
It doesnt matter she is british. SH was trying to imply heritage because black people arent british.
Click to expand...

She's a British citizen and in modern Britain, we're a multicultural society, her heritage isn't necessarily British and that is what was being asked about. Black people aren't indigenous to Britain (well not unless you go really far back), the current indigenous population of these islands was largely unchanged for 1000 years and is white, the biggest change to the current population was from the Anglo-Saxons, the Normans didn't add much.

From her name and outfit she'd appear to be a (recent) African immigrant but confusingly she's actually of African-Caribbean heritage has adopted an Igbo name (which may well be an ethnic group she has nothing to do with) and was wearing a sort of African-ish costume.
 
Last edited:
danlightbulb said:
Except in all of this, the facts are true that NF heritage and ancestory is not British. So whilst we can all accept the line of questioning, even bordering on interrogation, was there, it was actually to ascertain the history.

I cant see how that is racist. Its rude yes, its crass yes. But if something is factual can it be racist to ask about it, even to push on it? SH never said to NF, "you are not British". Some of you are reading that between the lines.

To be derogatory to someone means saying things that aren't true or are an insult. I don't see any insults in the conversation, at least not overt ones by our standards. If I take something you say as an insult when its not meant to be one, that's on me.

I agree the use of the word 'really' could, if emphasised in a certain way, come across as belittling. But we still don't know whether that belittling was because SH didn't like black people or had a different view about black people. That's what racism is and we can't prove it from the conversation.
Click to expand...

But this is why words are important, and yes saying "where are you really from", after already answering that you are from the UK IS saying that you don't think they are from the UK. You are dismissing the first answer and saying that no, they are actually from somewhere else.

She should have asked what her heritage was, NOT where she was "really from".
 
SexyGreyFox said:
I have many a time been asked while abroad where I actually come from if I say Britain.
Click to expand...

Yes, you probably have, as that would make sense. Quite common when on holiday/abroad. Good thing that isn't related to what happened here.

If i was asked where i was "from" whilst living here, by someone who i knew/assumed also lived here, i would simply say what region of the country I lived in (which funnily enough is what NF understood the question to be at first - ie where her charity was from).
 
Last edited:
Jono8 said:
But this is why words are important, and yes saying "where are you really from", after already answering that you are from the UK IS saying that you don't think they are from the UK. You are dismissing the first answer and saying that no, they are actually from somewhere else.

She should have asked what her heritage was, NOT where she was "really from".
Click to expand...

I agree she should have asked about heritage. She didn't, which is why we're here having to make a judgement on the true intention.

But unintentional poor choice of words does not mean racist.
 
Jono8 said:
The conversation went how it did absolutely because she was black.

Do you think she would have walked up to a random white person, and after asking them where they were from and being told the UK, she would have then proceeded to ask them where they were really from and where their people were from?

If you do, then you have wild imagination.
Click to expand...
I think if a white person turned up in African clothes I think the same curiousity might have sparked questions being asked.

I don't agree that something is offensive regardless of the intention. That would mean there is no context to any statement made.

I've noticed that none of the black commentators involved, including NF, wanted SH to be cancelled.
 
Jono8 said:
She should have asked what her heritage was, NOT where she was "really from".
Click to expand...

The supposed sentence was:

"No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?"

Notice how you've made a slight error there in even recalling a little snippet of dialogue, but you're constructing an argument based on the exact choice of words from a multi-line interaction. It's so easy to make an error like that everyone is prone to it, it makes recalling several lines inherently prone to errors.

Throw in that we know she lies, is prone to hyperbolic accusations etc.. and is publicity-hungry when it comes to disputes and this whole thing is sus.

But even then, assuming it were accurate, it's not racist, we know what she's getting at, it's just a clunky way of asking but the context is she's already asked about Africa, looked at the obviously African name on the name badge etc..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom