Assange to go!

[estebanrey]

Then the US could strip Arms deals, put them on the black list, stop their relations entirely.

Sweden has no power compared to the US.

You're proving my point, do you really think the US would lie to Sweden and possibly end up with that situation over one bloke who no longer causes a threat to either of them?

Besides the actions I proposed Sweden may take if they were lied to has no negative impact on them, the response you have suggested would be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. The US need the money from Sweden's arms purchases just as much as Sweden need the arms.

Yes, the USA stripping relations entirely with Sweden and placing them on a black list. That'd totally happen.

Is there no end to the rubbish conspiracy theorists post on the internet these days?

Quite, but some people are so desperate to believe the US's intention is to imprison Assange indefinitely in Guantanamo they'd rather come up with silly notions than actually accept what they believe maybe a little of the bats*** side.

 

[Craterloads]

You get some people calling others conspiracy theorists nut jobs, tin foil hat comments, and then when the thing actually happens you get the, "of coarse, is it really a suprise" type comments, trying to play it down, like they new all along.

 

[Xordium]

Like Assange maybe? It would be the quickest, cheapest and most expedient way of resolving the situation...



But why should they? Why should they treat him any different from any other suspected criminal? What makes him so special we should make all sorts of exceptions? Have the US even started any sort of proceedings against him?

I agree I think have said a number of times I want him to face the allegations - however this is not that simple as it has been turned into a political matter and with the option offered to him things have changed significantly.

So compromise needs to be found and the diplomats need to do that diplomatic thing and sort it out. I would rather we got ourselves out of this situations asap. I'd rather we also did not set in motion even by veiled threats something that would seriously compromise people who asylum was designed for. We do not know the USAs intentions they have shown blatant disregard for supposed allies rights and concerns when it suits their purposes. That along with someone with a bit of a messiah complex and an inability to exercise a bit of willpower when he full well knew he would be at risk has proven to make something quite simple into something quite complex.

 

[Third Opinion]

Oh well it will cheer up the conspiracy nuts for sometime if nothing else.

Sky news just said a couple of interesting things.

1. You are 10 times more likely to be extradited to the USA from England than Sweden. Yet he chose to come here when he claims he is frightened of being sent to the USA???

2. Asylum should only be claimed if you face religious or political persecution in your own country. Assange is an Australian citizen who is not wanted for anything in Australia, therefore has abused the Asylum system.

 

[Xordium]

Oh well it will cheer up the conspiracy nuts for sometime if nothing else.

Sky news just said a couple of interesting things.

1. You are 10 times more likely to be extradited to the USA from England than Sweden. Yet he chose to come here when he claims he is frightened of being sent to the USA???

2. Asylum should only be claimed if you face religious or political persecution in your own country. Assange is an Australian citizen who is not wanted for anything in Australia, therefore has abused the Asylum system.

Well that's all well and good but we could also say asylum should be gained in the first safe country ... I know I aint the brightest button in the box but the last time I looked Afghanistan, Iraq, North Africa, and half the rest of the planet does not share borders with the UK.

 

[RDM]

I agree I think have said a number of times I want him to face the allegations - however this is not that simple as it has been turned into a political matter and with the option offered to him things have changed significantly.

So compromise needs to be found and the diplomats need to do that diplomatic thing and sort it out. I would rather we got ourselves out of this situations asap. I'd rather we also did not set in motion even by veiled threats something that would seriously compromise people who asylum was designed for.

And I would rather not set a precedent that all you need to do to stop an arrest is to kick up enough of a fuss to make things awkward. The people seriously compromising the asylum system are the Ecuadorians by granting it to suspected sex offenders rather than political dissidents.

Why bend over backwards just because the person the arrest warrant is for has a certain amount of notoriety?

I would also assume that the diplomats are doing that diplomatic thing, just not in front of the cameras.

 

[Johnnytoxic]

I like this quote from the Guardian site from a user called Pindi

Bravo Ecuador!

The vast majority of the world is behind you, but now beware the wrath of the empire. Hell hath no fury............. .

What a nasty, servile, idiotic, violent, spineless nation GB has become, jumping at every whistle of its master in Washington.

What a contrast your stupid politicians make against the performance of your ordinary people who displayed such fortitude, determination, guts, and fight to win so many medals.

 

[Xordium]

And I would rather not set a precedent that all you need to do to stop an arrest is to kick up enough of a fuss to make things awkward. The people seriously compromising the asylum system are the Ecuadorians by granting it to suspected sex offenders rather than political dissidents.

Why bend over backwards just because the person the arrest warrant is for has a certain amount of notoriety?

I would also assume that the diplomats are doing that diplomatic thing, just not in front of the cameras.

We have that precedent already though don't we. Money and power can get you a long way - it's usually not exhibited in such an overt fashion though. And I agree about the Ecuadorians but I suspect I certain Argentinian lady may have had a little word in peoples ears there.

Yes let's hope they are but the release of that letter is hardly promising is it.

 

[Third Opinion]

Apparently he intends to come out in the next 48 hours to address and thank supporters according to a press release.

Of course if he steps out of the embassy door he can be arrested so I think this is as likely as me living to a ripe old age of 500.

Of course his supporters will believe that all his lies and promises are just part of the conspiracy so I expect a lot more of this rubbish. Others will probably claim it is a smokescreen and he is already living the high life in Ecuador.


No doubt even if he is arrested their will be a great deal of people who will claim he escaped and a look alike was used to arrest for the UK to keep face.

 

[lunarwolf]

Of course his supporters will believe that all his lies and promises

what specific lies are you referring to? he's been accused of many things but this is the first i hear of this.

 

[englishpremier]

Well that's all well and good but we could also say asylum should be gained in the first safe country ... I know I aint the brightest button in the box but the last time I looked Afghanistan, Iraq, North Africa, and half the rest of the planet does not share borders with the UK.

That used to be the German way. They declared every surrounding country a 'safe country'. It meant that to claim asylum you practically had to fall out of the sky.

 

[Third Opinion]

what specific lies are you referring to? he's been accused of many things but this is the first i hear of this.

Well lets see if he comes out if 48 hours shall we then we can answer that question.

 

[estebanrey]

You get some people calling others conspiracy theorists nut jobs, tin foil hat comments, and then when the thing actually happens you get the, "of coarse, is it really a suprise" type comments, trying to play it down, like they new all along.

Not at all, I just don't like conspiracy theories that have come from religious rather than scientific ways of discerning truth....

A) Religious Method - Come up with conclusion first, then find evidence to support that conclusion.

B) Scientific Method - Look at the evidence, arrive at a theory then try and disprove or falsify that theory.

The CT surrounding Assange seems to be argued too much using method method A. The argument from people who support the CT always try and cast doubt on the official story rather than trying to back up their own claim and willfully ignore the problems with their alternative theory.

If you must know, I don't believe Al Megrahi was solely responsible or even a major player in the Lockerbie Disaster which is different from the 'official line' so it's not a case that I simply believe whatever the official story is. I judge each situation on it's own merit and I just don't buy the notion that the CIA have fabricated a false rape allegation against Assange so they can ultimately stick him in Guantanamo Bay for the rest of his life as his supporters are claiming.

 

[lunarwolf]

Well lets see if he comes out if 48 hours shall we then we can answer that question.

in the meantime, maybe put a cork in it before slandering people with ludicrous unfounded statements.

i am sure he can make a speech form a balcony or open window it's not like Assange is camera shy

as fore stenbanrey what conspiracy theory are you talking about?

many US politicians (both democrats and republicans alike) and american journalist esp on Fox News have openly and vocally critisized Assange, some saying he should be put to death for being a traitor (eventhough he is not a US citizen). Furthermore Eric Holder, Attoney General, has been in talks with Sweden on possible extradiction. his problem is that he wants him but under the Espionnage Act, he can only charge the official who leaked the info not the website that published it. he is still working on a pretext to get Assange, but be in no doubt that US want Assange to face trial there. it's been written in numerous articles, featured in so many TV interviews that it is a little more clear cut than a conspiracy which would imply that the US deny any attempts to extradite him.

 

[FeFiDoh]

Hasn't he said he will go back to Sweden and face questioning and the allegations if they assure him he will face them there and not be sent to the USA? He has asked for assurances and they haven't given him any.

 

[estebanrey]

Debating this on Newsnight, BBC 2, now

 

[Xordium]

Not at all, I just don't like conspiracy theories that have come from religious rather than scientific ways of discerning truth....

A) Religious Method - Come up with conclusion first, then find evidence to support that conclusion.

B) Scientific Method - Look at the evidence, arrive at a theory then try and disprove or falsify that theory.

The CT surrounding Assange seems to be argued to much using method method A. The argument from people who support the CT always tryu and cast doubt on the official story rather than trying to back up their own claim and willfully ignore the problems with the CT.

If you must know, I don't believe Al Megrahi was solely responsible or even a major player in the Lockerbie Disaster which is different from the 'official line' so it's not a case that I simply buy whatever the official story is. I judge each situation on it's own merit and I just don't buy the notion that the CIA have fabricated a false rape allegation against Assange so they can ultimately stick him in Guantanamo Bay for the rest of his life as his supporters are claiming.

Strange you should say that again but I looked at the evidence thought everything was rather coincidental, recalled what I know about such things, looked a bit more and I am firmly keeping my mind open on this one and strongly believe we will never see the truth of it all in our lifetime. There is enough evidence the other way to warrant suspicion. As I posted earlier though you could equally well argue that the pressure would cause him to maybe act more inappropriately in most likely one of a few countries where he could have actually committed such a crime. You can make out with the scientific method all you want but things don't add up.

 

[Castiel]

People do realise that the United States has not even said they want to arrest Julian Assange, let alone started extradition proceedings...which again this seems to have escaped everyone's notice that WE have an extradition treaty which the United States could have used to request his removal to the US, yet surprise, surprise, they haven't.

Also the irony that a so called champion of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Information seeks asylum in a country which is hardly renowned for advocating such, quite the opposite in recent years...and to escape extradition to a Country whose committment to such freedoms is virtually peerless no less......

Oh, the ironing!!!!

 

[estebanrey]

Also the irony that a so called champion of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Information seeks asylum in a country which is hardly renowned for advocating such, quite the opposite in recent years...and to escape extradition to a Country whose committment to such freedoms is virtually peerless no less......

Quite, just reading up on Rafael Correa's (President of Ecuador) attacks of the media in his country, shocking and the complete opposite of what Assange says he stands for.

There's no principles here on Assange's part, he's deliberately chosen a South American country to align himself with because he knows, as we all do, that South Americans love to get one over on their Northern Cousins whenever they can.

Julian Assange would join the Taliban to avoid facing the allegations in Sweden if that was his only option. It's no longer about morals or principles, but trying to evade a legitimate claim made against him.

Sadly too many people are falling for this selfishness being disguised as persecution.

 

[Cosimo]

It should be quite a laugh when he gets snatched by the boys in blue and then bundled aboard a plane to Sweden. The sooner it happens the better.