Assange to go!

I am suspecting that the implications of the alleged crimes in Sweden could prevent less public backlash, less known support for him there, language barriers for adequate defense. The whole charade that will go with a rape trial will effectively and already has demonised him in many peoples eyes.

So there you go I've answered you question now you answer mine :p

Do you think the US will make no attempt whatsoever to get him to face the music?

It's not a rape trial.
 
That is not an answer by your own definition it is a question. I then gave three reasons that immediately came to mind why the may see it as potentially preferable which relates to the below.

I wasn't talking about why Assange may find it preferable......I was asking why the US have not asked the United Kingdom for his extradition, given that the UK-US extradition treaty would be easier to justify legally and actually supports charges made pursuant to espionage.

Have you been in a Swedish court I have - the proceedings are held in Swedish. The cunning thing her is you know in France I believe they are held in ... French and in Russia well you're never going to guess this but ... Russian! I know it's quite amazing isn't it ... who would have thought!

As you mention it, yes I have....6 times. And in every instance I gave my evidence in English and all questions were put to me in English. I was supplied with a court appointed Translator also...... Strange that.

So now bearing in mind your usual eloquence and obvious intelligence you seem to lack the creativity to imagine what I may have possibly meant by 'charges related to the leaks specifically the ones Manning supplied'. If you wish me to be very specific then I'll guess I'll really spell it out but then please stop with the politician's answers and just a straight yes or no, eh.

Oh, I see....you want be to comment on an imagined scenario..not one objectively based on evidence. Ok:


Castiel, do you think the USA will make any attempt to pursue charges against Assange under the Espionage Act (1917) for his involvement in the release and subsequent dissemination of classified material provided to him b Manning?

Not from Sweden....the US-Swedish extradition treaty doesn't support extradition for any criminal offence that has a potentional for capital punishment, not to mention the little detail that the US Authorities have not actually made any charges against Julian Assange or more importantly that any charges relating to Espionage or National Security are not within the legal remit of the US-Swedish extradition treaty.

While we are making stuff up as we go along....you do realise that the US-Ecuador extradition treaty would allow Assange to be extradited to the US far easier than from any EU or affiliated nation...primarily because Assange technically was in receipt of valuable stolen US property....an extraditable offence in Ecuador.
 
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Lol.......


Are you related to Assange, why are you so concerned whether someone thinks he is a liar.......I think he is a liar...sue me!!!


not related in any way; however, I am fearful that this would be the begining of the end of Wikileaks, as well as intimidate future potential whistleblowers from coming forward.
 
Chris [BEANS];22578875 said:
As someone who knew little about this before venturing in, this seems to be the most rational, reasonable and realistic post. (aside from "(with Ecuadorian officials looking on and threatening to throw the Swedish prosecuters out at any time)", which although possible is just an assumption)

Granted I did make an assumption there. I guess the point I was trying to make is that interviewing someone in Police custody where all the person has is their brief and isn't in control of the interview is different to being interviewed in the Embassy where they Ecuadorian diplomats would ultimately have control over the interview and when it ended.

In a Swedish police station, Assange can't say "I don't like the questions you are asking me so I'm going to ask you to leave now" which he could do if interviewed in the Embassy with sympathetic diplomats watching on who have the power to remove the prosecutors at any time.
 
That should've been whichever, rather than which, in my post.

---

In order,

They haven't charged him with anything - what's your point?

No charges, no extradition.....end of.

Unless Ecuador have told him they'd have his back, regardless of what the US charged him with.

So you think that breaking a treaty agreement with a valuable economic and political ally is actually something Ecuador would do for some random activist?...Upsetting Great Britain and playing to the South American peanut gallery, particularly in light of their support of Argentine claims on the Falklands is not quite the same as breaking treaty agreements with one of their biggest trading partners.

Article eight of the treaty says,

So surely they could just seek assurances that the death penalty wouldn't be sought by those prosecuting Assange in the US.

Assurances that are compatible with Swedish Law....this would include no military trial, no death penalty, full access to independent legal representation, a full detailed submission of the charges, evidence and the assurances on Assange's welfare as compatible with Swedish Law......none of which applies to the UK-US treaty.

And the really big stumbling block.......charges related to Espionage or National Security is NOT part of the US-Swedish treaty......the treaty simply doesn't have the remit to actually extradite Assange on any potential charge relating to obtaining sensitive documents pertaining to US national security.
 
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not related in any way; however, I am fearful that this would be the begining of the end of Wikileaks, as well as intimidate future potential whistleblowers from coming forward.

Julian Assange hasn't had any involvement with Wikileaks running for quite a while now. Even if all charges and extradition threats were dropped I can't see Assange wanting to take the risk again of having to deal with the hassle this has caused him.
 
not related in any way; however, I am fearful that this would be the begining of the end of Wikileaks, as well as intimidate future potential whistleblowers from coming forward.

Wiki leaks would simply be replaced by the next activist website....Julian Assange has had little to do with wiki leaks for quite some time, basically since he attained personal notoriety.

Being convicted (if he is guilty) or being questioned on sexual assault charges is not going to intimidate anyone, least of all determined whistleblowers..
 
Wiki leaks would simply be replaced by the next activist website....Julian Assange has had little to do with wiki leaks for quite some time, basically since he attained personal notoriety.

Being convicted (if he is guilty) or being questioned on sexual assault charges is not going to intimidate anyone, least of all determined whistleblowers..

And it doesn't mean they should escape justice.
 
Excuse me for not reading this entire thread in detail, but why are Ecuador sticking their nose in? What business is it of theirs, who do they think they are?
 
Excuse me for not reading this entire thread in detail, but why are Ecuador sticking their nose in? What business is it of theirs, who do they think they are?

They are playing to the peanut gallery.....just like their support of Argentine claims on the Falklands...it gives them political kudos amongst their immediate trading group.

Any hoo....I'm off to bed..goodnight.
 
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Seems to have escalated somewhat today and seems more and more likely in my opinion there is more that just someone wanted for questioning by Sweden.

What a ridiculous waste of time and money by the Government.
 
Would they go to these lengths to extradite an accused Joe Random? If not why are they for assange? Most likely because the US wants him and Sweden would send him.


Yeh ofc, the way it was written sort of read as if they were looking for another person apart fro assange.
 
Would they go to these lengths to extradite an accused Joe Random? If not why are they for assange? Most likely because the US wants him and Sweden would send him.

Err because they are legally obliged to? They can't just decide not to bother.

The only reason why its likely this situation wouldnt exist with Joe Random is because Joe Random wouldn't have the option of suggesting its all a nasty conspiracy from the horrible USA and therefore a South American embassy would laugh and close the door. Therefore Joe Random wouldn't be able to attempt to escape allegations of sexual assault quite as easily..
 
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Seems to have escalated somewhat today and seems more and more likely in my opinion there is more that just someone wanted for questioning by Sweden.

What a ridiculous waste of time and money by the Government.

Don't forget, wanted for questioning by Sweden on a matter to which the two witnesses/victims has ceased cooperating with the authority's on.
 
was watching newsnight last night and they had a guy on who's part of the swedish judicial system and when he was asked why they couldn't question assange in the uk all he could say is "its not up to me to tell the prosecutors what to do".

id love to know why they can go to eastern europe to talk to a murderer but not to the uk to talk to a alleged rapist.

no matter anyones personal view on assange the above shows something isn't 100% on the level with whats going on.

now pair that up with the fact when asked to provided "special circumstances" (a rule that states no one can be extradited again within 45 days of being handed over to a county) sweden and the uk gov have both refused to give this, even though its part of international law on extraditions normally.

and the cherry on the top is ecuador asked the united states to provide a guarantee that assange wouldn't be extradited from sweden, and the us refused to provide anything even though as it stands at the moment he isn't wanted in the states.

as for the european arrest warrent being used just to question someone, its a shambles.

and all of this after the initial case over the rape allegations was dropped and only then picked back up after the current prosecutor (a known glory seeker in sweden) picked it up and convinced the girls to change there minds over it.

i really do hope this blows up in a big way now and shows what a bunch of idiots are in high office around the world.
 
It's not a rape trial.

There is no trial there are no formal charges the previous ones were dropped. However, if you think that having sexual intercourse with someone who is asleep, who has not given consent, does not satisfy the criteria for the use of that word then the mind boggles.

I wasn't talking about why Assange may find it preferable......I was asking why the US have not asked the United Kingdom for his extradition, given that the UK-US extradition treaty would be easier to justify legally and actually supports charges made pursuant to espionage.

Oh really:

1) I asked this question:

So you think the US will make no attempt whatsoever to get him to face the music?

2) You failed to answer that question and instead evaded and asked a rhetorical one:

The pertinent question is, why have they not done so already?....while he was in a country with an extradition treaty which requires far less evidence of wrongdoing and has far wider scope for extradition than that of Sweden?

3) I replied with these 3 reasons:

I am suspecting that the implications of the alleged crimes in Sweden could prevent less public backlash, less known support for him there, language barriers for adequate defense. The whole charade that will go with a rape trial will effectively and already has demonised him in many peoples eyes.

4) How you think this may meet 'I wasn't talking about why Assange may find it preferable' rather than the more obvious 'I was asking why the US have not asked the United Kingdom for his extradition' which it quite clearly is meant to address I don't know.


As you mention it, yes I have....6 times. And in every instance I gave my evidence in English and all questions were put to me in English. I was supplied with a court appointed Translator also...... Strange that.

And I would like you to find exactly where I said those option were not available. I would also assert that you would still be disadvantaged not speaking the native tongue.

Not from Sweden....

So yet again you do not answer the question. Where exactly did the question say Sweden? Where? What is so difficult with your considerable intelligence to answer one simple question with a one word answer? So ...

Once again simple yes or no. Do you believe the US will make an attempt to get him to face charges related to the leaks specifically the ones Manning supplied?

Really Castiel you can't type a simple yes or no?

Here let me demonstrate:

Do I believe Assange is on the balance of probabilities guilty of at least sexual assault related to the potential charges. Yes
Do I believe they have enough to convict him. No - it's his word against theirs however his flight from justice has hardly made him look great. But such trials are never really that successful.
Do I believe Ecuador has misapplied the asylum rules. Yes
Do I believe Assange is using his power and connections to evade justice inappropriately. Yes
Do I believe it was stupid for the UK to make veiled threats. Yes
Do I believe the US will attempt to bring him before their courts. Yes
Do I believe the US had or uses such methodology to setup or facilitate his weaknesses to 'smear him'. Yes
Do I believe they actually did that. On the balance of evidence - no although I do have some doubt.
 
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I think the US may try to get him to the US but there is the fundamental issue of, given our agreements with the US and our haste to agree to send people to that country under that agreement, why didn't they just do it while he was here?

He doesn't need to be in a Swedish prison or even in Sweden for them to seek the extradition agreement.

Ecuador also has an extradition agreement with US. I think its also been mentioned in this thread that they don't have one with Sweden.

So what is Assange running from really..the charges in Sweden or the charges in the US that the US have not brought and haven't asked the UK to deport him for.

For all the conspiracy arguments about whether the charges are real etc..why if the US want him and have evidence against him for whatever they decide to charge him for (and he didn't obtain all the information himself anyway) didn't they just ask us? Does anyone really think we wouldn't have rolled over and sent him?

I don't believe there would be a huge public backlash if we deported him from the UK I simply don't think public opinion on him is cut and dried. I don't think its simpler to get him in Sweden indeed its probably more long winded and effectively means a massive stitch up as well. All strikes me as a lot harder than simply saying 'extradition please' and after a short while they would have him (if they have a case, if they don't they won't get him in Sweden either).
 
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