Atmos worth it?

hornetstinger · 31 Dec 2020 at 18:40

Mr_Sukebe said:
So going back to the point about the Sony receiver. If my amp "can" pull upto 750 watts, or 375/channel, but can only output 140, then what's the Sony going to do if trying to run 5 or 7 channels?

Don't forget 750w max
Into 8 ohm 140w
Into 4ohm probably 200w
Into 2 ohm probably 300w

As for that Sony, divide max power consumption by numbers of channels it has plus deduct amount for loss,and power usage for DSP, and for proper rated out not high the and into 6 ohm sin.i'd say take off 10w per channel

lucid · 31 Dec 2020 at 21:14

hornetstinger said:
Don't forget 750w max
Into 8 ohm 140w
Into 4ohm probably 200w
Into 2 ohm probably 300w

What those sort of wattage increases don't show is that as the impedance falls so the current required increases quite substantially. The wattage gains then aren't free, and they don't account for the difference in power consumption versus speaker output power.

hornetstinger · 31 Dec 2020 at 22:24

lucid said:
What those sort of wattage increases don't show is that as the impedance falls so the current required increases quite substantially. The wattage gains then aren't free, and they don't account for the difference in power consumption versus speaker output power.

Correct, assuming with a well built amp, with hefty PSU,. adequately fet output, storage capacitance, as power increases,the amp capable of that..and not just overheat and shutoff.

Grim5 · 1 Jan 2021 at 10:38

Only worth it if you use in ceiling speakers. Atmos is a waste of money with up firing speakers

Street · 1 Jan 2021 at 12:50

Grim5 said:
Only worth it if you use in ceiling speakers. Atmos is a waste of money with up firing speakers

That may be so for up firing (I can't comment as I've never heard it), but using front heights as an Atmos setup is definitely worth it for me. I watched Doctor Sleep and La La Land over the last couple nights and they both sound fantastic. Front heights are probably only marginally more effort to install than up firing and definitely less effort than ceiling speakers.

Grimley · 1 Jan 2021 at 13:35

Dunno. I've never heard a atmos setup. I've gone as far as 6.1 for mine & that was 17 years ago when DTS-ES & DD-EX were the latest formats at the time. I shoehorned DTS-HD & Dolby trueHD into my system since then. I've drawn the line at any more speakers, as the room I have the setup in is too small to hear any benefit. I don't think there are that many Atmos blu-ray discs in circulation for me to try it out if I wanted. I'm neither interested in or tempted to upgrade to UHD 4k/HDR until something in my system breaks & I have to replace.

Street · 1 Jan 2021 at 14:14

I don't have a 4k TV yet either, and probably won't be swapping until mine gives up the ghost. However, there is still a surprising amount of content that is bluray with Atmos and even just the Neural X upmix on other content sounds good to me. My upgrade was a natural progression anyway as after getting new rears, I needed to find a use for my old rears rather than leave them gathering dust.

hornetstinger · 1 Jan 2021 at 18:51

Grimley said:
Dunno. I've never heard a atmos setup. I've gone as far as 6.1 for mine & that was 17 years ago when DTS-ES & DD-EX were the latest formats at the time. I shoehorned DTS-HD & Dolby trueHD into my system since then. I've drawn the line at any more speakers, as the room I have the setup in is too small to hear any benefit. I don't think there are that many Atmos blu-ray discs in circulation for me to try it out if I wanted. I'm neither interested in or tempted to upgrade to UHD 4k/HDR until something in my system breaks & I have to replace.

I have a good 7.1 DD/DTS system, no hd audio. 4k display with hdr.

To get lossless hd audio means a new av pre amp... expensive

aoaaron · 1 Jan 2021 at 20:05

can definitely hear benefit even in small rooms 3mx3m. its a sense of height, depth and bubble as you'd espect in an object based audio system.

some films don't use the atmos heights well but those that do add an extra dimension which can be subtle or shockingly awesome in some scenes.

Grimley · 1 Jan 2021 at 20:55

hornetstinger said:
I have a good 7.1 DD/DTS system, no hd audio. 4k display with hdr.

To get lossless hd audio means a new av pre amp... expensive

Agreed. For me to upgrade to Atmos/4K/HDR to an acceptable level would be at least the thick end of £2-3K spent on a 4K UHD disc player, A half decent Atmos receiver, a couple of speakers which would not match sonically with my other speakers because said speakers are no longer made & hard to get hold of 2nd hand. That or to replace the lot which I'm not going to as there is nothing wrong with them despite being 17 years old. Also a 4K telly which, OK they are a dime a dozen these days but I only have enough space for my old panny 32" these days, 4K isnt worth it at that size. My projector I could replace but its getting a short throw model with lens adjustment, I'm certain someone makes them (Chinese most likely) but wont be cheap & again I don't watch enough content on my HC to justify the cost. I'm of the school where I have to watch the pennies so I can enjoy retirement if I live long enough.

hornetstinger · 1 Jan 2021 at 21:54

Grimley said:
Agreed. For me to upgrade to Atmos/4K/HDR to an acceptable level would be at least the thick end of £2-3K spent on a 4K UHD disc player, A half decent Atmos receiver, a couple of speakers which would not match sonically with my other speakers because said speakers are no longer made & hard to get hold of 2nd hand. That or to replace the lot which I'm not going to as there is nothing wrong with them despite being 17 years old. Also a 4K telly which, OK they are a dime a dozen these days but I only have enough space for my old panny 32" these days, 4K isnt worth it at that size. My projector I could replace but its getting a short throw model with lens adjustment, I'm certain someone makes them (Chinese most likely) but wont be cheap & again I don't watch enough content on my HC to justify the cost. I'm of the school where I have to watch the pennies so I can enjoy retirement if I live long enough.

Matching heights to mains brand and model isn't essential, if or when I go Atmos I may get the wharfedale 300d, not too expensive.

New av pre will be around £3500, ie anthem avm70. Already have spare amplifiers
https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/d300-3d/

aoaaron · 1 Jan 2021 at 22:09

hornetstinger said:
Matching heights to mains brand and model isn't essential, if or when I go Atmos I may get the wharfedale 300d, not too expensive.

New av pre will be around £3500, ie anthem avm70. Already have spare amplifiers
https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/d300-3d/

I agree.

I'm MASSIVELY into timbre matching but for atmos speakers, it really doesn't matter.

Even if voices are to coming from the atmos speakers, the fact they're above you means sound will normally, if coming from above you, sound a bit different. Timbre matching based on a voice which spans around the room AND above you as far as I'm aware I've only ever experienced in one film; gravity atmos edition AND again.. a voice coming from above you can be excuses for not being perfectly timbre matches base on the fact that in real life if a sound is coming from above your head.. it wouldn't be out of the scope of belief to perceive it as sounding a bit different.

pugheaven · 4 Jan 2021 at 13:01

Atmos when settup is fantastic and don't forget, dependant on the amp, you would get with my Denon NeuralX which will take normal "flat" non Atmos soundtracks and convert them to Atmos as well, yes it's not as good as having a descrete channel HOWEVER trust me, it can and does sound great dependant on the film!!!

Junglist · 4 Jan 2021 at 13:41

We have a fake atmos set up in our smallish living-room and it works really well.

Well enough that if we were ever in a position to do a house from scratch I'd invest in proper ceiling speakers.

Street · 4 Jan 2021 at 22:07

pugheaven said:
Atmos when settup is fantastic and don't forget, dependant on the amp, you would get with my Denon NeuralX which will take normal "flat" non Atmos soundtracks and convert them to Atmos as well, yes it's not as good as having a descrete channel HOWEVER trust me, it can and does sound great dependant on the film!!!

I've been really impressed with Neural X. I thought it would be a bit of a gimmick but I've given it a few test runs and I think it sounds great. Obviously not as good as a proper Atmos soundtrack, but it's impressive none the less.

-Ad- · 5 Jan 2021 at 08:14

If you want a really cheap and effective way to get some height then consider this.

Grab some old M&K K4 Tripole speakers off eBay to use as your rear pair and side surrounds. They go for £100-130 a pair, so £200-260 all in.

Sit them on the floor firing upwards (take note of the directions shown on the speakers) and enjoy incredible surround and height without having to buy expensive Processors/AVRs or needing to put speakers in your ceiling.

I run a 7.2 with these, x3 front ATC speakers and x2 XTZ Cinema Subs and the system is mighty. It's controlled by the bargain Nakamichi AV1 Processor, with a Lyngdorf Amp for the FL/FR and a matching Nakamichi 7ch amp powering the centre and x4 surrounds.

As with most AV/Hi-Fi things, quality components, setup properly with some room treatment (or well placed soft furnishings) will make a huge difference. Throwing money at ever more expensive equipment really doesn't give you an awful lot more other than a substantially lighter bank account.

Don't forget to get acquainted with REW and pickup a used UMIK-1 mic to setup your system properly.

lucid said:
What those sort of wattage increases don't show is that as the impedance falls so the current required increases quite substantially. The wattage gains then aren't free, and they don't account for the difference in power consumption versus speaker output power.

With all channels being driven it'll be about 11Wpc then

Ayahuasca · 5 Jan 2021 at 09:28

Lossless atmos is worth it when setup correctly. Soundbars with up-firing satellites do an okay job in the right room but you really need ceiling speakers for the proper overhead effects.

It's very easy to start "chasing the dragon" when you get into higher-end audio though.

gailjon · 5 Jan 2021 at 10:07

If I was to add in ceiling speakers to my set up what would people suggest? I have Monitor audio silver fronts, centre and FX rears (to arrive shortly). However, I fancy using the capabilities of the amp and go for Atmos as I have easy access to the loft space above the room.

I have seen in the thread that matching the ceiling speakers is not important which means I should be able to get cheaper speakers than the MA ceilings?

200sols · 5 Jan 2021 at 10:45

gailjon said:
If I was to add in ceiling speakers to my set up what would people suggest? I have Monitor audio silver fronts, centre and FX rears (to arrive shortly). However, I fancy using the capabilities of the amp and go for Atmos as I have easy access to the loft space above the room.

I have seen in the thread that matching the ceiling speakers is not important which means I should be able to get cheaper speakers than the MA ceilings?

I have silver fronts, centre and rears and use fisual IC65. They work very well and quite cheap. Dont forget your fire hoods.

-Ad- · 5 Jan 2021 at 11:47

gailjon said:
If I was to add in ceiling speakers to my set up what would people suggest? I have Monitor audio silver fronts, centre and FX rears (to arrive shortly). However, I fancy using the capabilities of the amp and go for Atmos as I have easy access to the loft space above the room.

I have seen in the thread that matching the ceiling speakers is not important which means I should be able to get cheaper speakers than the MA ceilings?

What power amp are you running?