Australian bushfires

Minusorange said:
If you want to argue against climate change causing these fires, then what is your argument for the environment that has allowed these fires to get so bad ?

It's like the moor fires we had in the UK the other year, they were all caused by humans setting the fires but the conditions that lead to them getting out of control is entirely on the climate
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I never mentioned that!
Are you trying to bait?
 
Minusorange said:
If you want to argue against climate change causing these fires, then what is your argument for the environment that has allowed these fires to get so bad ?

It's like the moor fires we had in the UK the other year, they were all caused by humans setting the fires but the conditions that lead to them getting out of control is entirely on the climate
Click to expand...

Europeans have only really known about Australia in any sort of detail for a little over 200 years.

That really isn't long enough to know anything about Australia's long term climate cycles or how the land has been managed in the past.

AIUI, The Aborigines have since time immemorial used fire as part of their survival tools. Setting frequent small fires would clear the bush of deadwood and basically make large scale fires less possible.

Having said that. Many Australian plants are pyrophytic and will not germinate and/or grow unless exposed to fire. This sort of evolution would not occur if widespread fires were not something that has been a routine part of the Australian ecosystem and environment for a very long time.

We (Well some of us anyway) are looking at this and saying "Fires=Climate change" whereas it might actually have been something that has happened on this scale every couple of centuries since like forever and/or it has only happend on this scale because there are less small fires being set by the abbos as a matter of routine and this has allowed sufficient deadwood to build up to make fires on this scale possible.
 
Orionaut said:
We (Well some of us anyway) are looking at this and saying "Fires=Climate change" whereas it might actually have been something that has happened on this scale every couple of centuries since like forever and/or it has only happend on this scale because there are less small fires being set by the abbos as a matter of routine and this has allowed sufficient deadwood to build up to make fires on this scale possible.
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Is this not the general consensus? Ignoring both fanatical viewpoints.
 
Orionaut said:
We (Well some of us anyway) are looking at this and saying "Fires=Climate change" whereas it might actually have been something that has happened on this scale every couple of centuries since like forever and/or it has only happend on this scale because there are less small fires being set by the abbos as a matter of routine and this has allowed sufficient deadwood to build up to make fires on this scale possible.
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http://www.cmar.csiro.au/e-print/open/2007/hennesseykj_c.pdf

It was predicted in 2007 that by 2020 the bushfires would be worse

In this study, the potential impact of climate change on southeast Australia is
estimated. Simulations from two CSIRO climate models using two greenhouse gas
and aerosol emissions scenarios are combined with historical weather observations
to assess the changes to fire weather expected by 2020 and 2050. In general, fire
weather conditions are expected to worsen. By 2020, the increase in SFFDI is
generally 0-4% in the low scenarios and 0-10% in the high scenarios. By 2050, the
increase in generally 0-8% (low) and 10-30% (high). The largest changes are
expected in northern New South Wales
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VincentHanna said:
We live in a strange World when a Murdoch criticises their own news corp for denying climate change

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-51112322
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Why is that strange? I know the 'norm' for a lot of people (especially on Twitter and internet forums) is to have a binary "I DISAGREE/AGREE WITH THIS PERSON ON ONE THING THEREFORE I WILL AGREE/DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE THEY SAY OR DO", but not everyone is that shallow minded.
 
Em3bbs said:
Why is that strange? I know the 'norm' for a lot of people (especially on Twitter and internet forums) is to have a binary "I DISAGREE/AGREE WITH THIS PERSON ON ONE THING THEREFORE I WILL AGREE/DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE THEY SAY OR DO", but not everyone is that shallow minded.
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It's strange because he is essentially one of the bosses, criticising his own organisation for fake news.
 
Not read the whole thread, but is there any truth to the 180 odd people being arrested for starting the fires in the first place?
I know theres a big "Climate Change" issue being banded about but if people were starting fires deliberatly, and I also hear that "back burning" hasnt been done, how much of this is actually, directly, attributable to climate change?
 
Trig said:
Not read the whole thread, but is there any truth to the 180 odd people being arrested for starting the fires in the first place?
I know theres a big "Climate Change" issue being banded about but if people were starting fires deliberatly, and I also hear that "back burning" hasnt been done, how much of this is actually, directly, attributable to climate change?
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No.
 
Trig said:
Not read the whole thread, but is there any truth to the 180 odd people being arrested for starting the fires in the first place?
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Not really, no. Most of the couple of hundred arrests have been for negligence, not actual arson. A person goes camping and lights a campfire in the wrong way in the wrong place, that sort of thing. Of course there has been some amount of arson, but there's no evidence of arson being a major factor. Lightning is probably the most common cause.

I know theres a big "Climate Change" issue being banded about but if people were starting fires deliberatly, and I also hear that "back burning" hasnt been done, how much of this is actually, directly, attributable to climate change?
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Nobody really knows, but reality has nothing to do with politics so reality doesn't matter.
 
Angilion said:
A person goes camping and lights a campfire in the wrong way in the wrong place, that sort of thing.
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This is ultimately the problem

If the environment is so "On the Edge" that a bad camp fire or a carelessly discarded tab end is going to result in a Biblical level apocalypse, then it is going to happen anyway sooner or later. (for reason of Lightning, or any other purely natural trigger)

Picking on individuals to blame (No matter how careless or even wilful they might have been) actually misses the point completely!
 
Trig said:
I also hear that "back burning" hasnt been done
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Absolutely not true. Fuel reduction and back burning was carried out extensively. Firebreaks were created wherever possible.

Unfortunately some of these fires are capable of leaping 500 metres, which means they can cross rivers, roads, fire breaks, and pretty much anything else.
 
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