Australian GP 2009 - Race 1/17 (NOT in HD BTW)

you will find some of the most succesful people in F1 were also big cheaters it wasnt just schumacher look at the people he raced with when he first drove for jordan and then benneton hardly saints were they
 
rypt said:
I'm struggling to recall Schumi using the stewards or the FIA to penalise his opposition, yes he used marshals to get him out of gravel, yes he rammed into people, yes he parked his car, yes he used an illegal helmet once, and so on .. but I do not recall him getting his opponents penalised by the FIA like that.

End of the day, the issue here is not necessarily lying. You have to walk/cross the line on the track while racing (such as diffusers, flexible wings, moveable floors etc), however you DO NOT lie to the officials to get your opposition penalised; this is where McLaren crossed the line.
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As I've mentioned, I am sure if you look back at several racing incidents, where drivers gave very conflicting stories, clearly one of them was lying and that lie was only there to gain them no penalty, and obviously ensure the other guy did get the penalty.. When the FIA have ruled on who was to actually blame, nothing is mentioned about the lying and no extra punishment given for the person who lied. It's not indentical to LH's situation, but it's hardly ten times worse either.
 
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JRS said:
Where they did wrong was in trying to make out to the stewards that they hadn't let Trulli back through. That's why they got hit with the DQ stick.
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whether they did or they didnt - the transmissions where there for stewards to listen to right away

Not only that - so friggin what if McLaren let Trulli past or not, at the end of the day they lost a place and not gained it - so surely thats enough penalty, why are the FIA penalising something from which McLaren are already losing from anyway (given that a lot of rules are so vague its impossible to know even at reasonably slow speeds behind the sc in a race situation)

I still think its complete bs
 
I'm still confused as to why Hamilton should be consulted on a drive through penalty, what if this incident had happened during the first SC period, how would the FIA have played it then? It seems these after race drive throughs are treated as normal drive throughs only when it suits the FIA.

Mclaren are utter idiots for lying though.
 
Hamilton is a soft **** or is playing the waterworks so the team are not punished more.

If I was on £20million a year and banging a pussycat doll I would lie through my back teeth.
 
FrankJH said:
whether they did or they didnt - the transmissions where there for stewards to listen to right away
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Yes, they were. The whole idiotic situation could have been avoided if they'd used them initially rather than ask Hamilton and McLaren. That just invited a situation where the parties involved might be less than truthful.

FrankJH said:
Not only that - so friggin what if McLaren let Trulli past or not
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Well, it would make a great deal of difference to Trulli wouldn't it? It was the difference between keeping his podium finish and getting an un-appealable 25sec penalty! That's why they asked the question to McLaren and Hamilton as to whether they let Trulli by or not, and that's why they went off on one when it was discovered that Hamilton and McLaren hadn't told the truth since that untruth led to Trulli being penalised.

Had they just listened to the radio tranmission in the first place then none of this would have happened.
 
I cant believe there are still people here trying to defend Mclaren! As a big schumi fan I know he bent/used/abused the rules to his advantage, parking the car up in Monaco was wrong and he cheated, but he wasn't defended by me like some of u guys defending Mclaren!

The funny thing is responses to my last couple of posts before Mclaren came clean, makes for some entertaining reading ;-)

Anyway they have been punished and hopefully they will learn, LH to Ferrari, now thats what I am talking about :-)
 
JRS said:
Oh, and given the revelations about what happened - anyone want to defend McLaren at all? Is it all a giant pro-Ferrari conspiracy at the FIA?
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Defend McLaren? No. Shockingly poor and stupid behaviour. Hamilton showed his youth and inexperience by towing a line he knew was wrong, silly boy. As for Ryan? I have no idea what he was thinking.

Or can we take it as read that, for once, the FIA probably got it bang-on?
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No, I don't think we can. The Stewards took their decision poorly, they should have based it on data and footage not a game of he says/she says. The FIA may have been righ to re-open it, and a penalty is appropriate for misleading the stewards. I'm still not convinced disqualification was the right choice though; I would have thought a hefty fine for both driver and team was more appropriate, but hey.
 
Mr Jack said:
No, I don't think we can. The Stewards took their decision poorly, they should have based it on data and footage not a game of he says/she says. The FIA may have been righ to re-open it, and a penalty is appropriate for misleading the stewards. I'm still not convinced disqualification was the right choice though; I would have thought a hefty fine for both driver and team was more appropriate, but hey.
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Agreed completely.
Like I have said all along the actual problematic incident wasn't directly involved with the race so shouldn't have affected Melbourne.
Hopefully all these rumours of further bans turn out to be false - plenty of time for Hamilton to try and make up points again.
 
Mr Jack said:
No, I don't think we can. The Stewards took their decision poorly, they should have based it on data and footage not a game of he says/she says. The FIA may have been righ to re-open it, and a penalty is appropriate for misleading the stewards. I'm still not convinced disqualification was the right choice though; I would have thought a hefty fine for both driver and team was more appropriate, but hey.
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It is still run as a GENTLEMAN'S sport ... hence the stewards taking what the drivers say, because they are supposed to trust them.
What you say to the stewards is similar to say a court room, does that mean that you should never trust a witness in court?
 
rypt said:
It is still run as a GENTLEMAN'S sport ... hence the stewards taking what the drivers say, because they are supposed to trust them.
What you say to the stewards is similar to say a court room, does that mean that you should never trust a witness in court?
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Given that Trulli and Lewis's accounts differ do you not think they should have checked appropriate data and footage? It's all very well taking a line that they should tell the truth (and I agree that they should) but ultimately driver's views on what happened are going to differ, so the stewards should look to other means to confirm, or adjucate.
 
Trulli says - I thought Hamilton had a problem so I overtook him
Lewis says - I was going like normal and he overtook me

Given that Trulli had just lost a place, and was not supposed to overtake ... who would you believe in the above exchange?
I say, Lewis everyday of the year, and twice on Sunday.

Despite differing views, the point of difference is the speed and given the evidence to hand at the time, you'd be right to believe Lewis.
 
NathanE said:
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5139714,00.html

Looks like the FIA have accepted Hamilton's public apology and are now going after McLaren as a constructor...

Hmm where have I seen this before? ;)
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Thats stupid to be honest. They are of equal blame. No one forced him to lie, sure mclaren gave him bad advice but hamilton has shown more than once he's prepared to ignore the team.

I can see mclaren getting excluded from the constructors now. Which won't bother Lewis in the slightest. What they should do is pedal out a crying Ryan and see if that has the same impact. Say Ron told him to do it.
 
FrankJH said:
Witch-hunt by any other name
£50m fine was attrocious - this is beyond a joke
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50m fine was too small, should have been equivalent to however much money Ferrari spent developing the car that McLaren had the blueprints for ... and it's way more than 50mil.
 
Its pretty funny reading the comments and realising (well its a known fact tbh) how McLaren/Hamilton biased this forum is. If you arent a McLaren supporter then you are Ferrari without even a second glance. I really though Schumacher fans were the worst types of fan, but then LH turned up :rolleyes:

We all know the sport is dirty, considering the level of competition and money at stake of course it is, its just that some teams have learnt how to do it well while others like McLaren so obviously havent (especially in recent years it seems).

I find it disgusting that whatever is at the core of the McLaren issue, its bigger than just Ryan making a judgement mistake, causing him to pretty much have lost his career (or any public credibility) and being used as a scapegoat by LH and MW. Its amazing as choked as LH was in his press conference (he has confirmed that he is a human being :p) about being opposed to team orders regards omitting the truth thats hes still able to apportion all blame onto his (ex) team manager. Now could this be an order from above (but obviously LH wouldnt involve himself in such orders no? He just said so himself...) or its actually what LH feels about the matter (quite arrogant no? Ruin anothers career to protect your own).

With all the people saying to LH to get out, who would really take him? Hes got a track record of causing in-fighting within the team at the highest level and seemingly will take anyone down with him when he (or the team) gets caught. As good a driver as he is, he does seem a handful to manage and I would never feel comfortable around him if I was a team mate or even an engineer/manager...

At the end of the day as clean as Hamilton will get his public image the people within the sport have a good idea whats happen and its just going to further ostercised himself from his fellow competitors.

The wierd thing is that I would never expect this from Ferrari if caught - all close ranks and look after each other and toe the party line, but with McLaren it really does seem each man for himself...

P.S. Am I the only one that thinks the apology from LH was there to avoid further actions from the FIA than to really say 'sorry'? One thing to say for Schumacher though, we all knew he was a bare-face cheat but at least he was one-dimensional like that; LH just goes one step further and goes for the sad eyes routinue and 'they made me do it' and everything is seemingly hunky dory.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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ps3ud0 said:
The wierd thing is that I would never expect this from Ferrari if caught - all close ranks and look after each other and toe the party line, but with McLaren it really does seem each man for himself...

P.S. Am I the only one that thinks the apology from LH was there to avoid further actions from the FIA than to really say 'sorry'? One thing to say for Schumacher though, we all knew he was a bare-face cheat but at least he was one-dimensional like that; LH just goes one step further and goes for the sad eyes routinue and 'they made me do it' and everything is seemingly hunky dory.
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Indeed on all 3 points made there
 
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