Australian Grand Prix 2011, Albert Park Circuit - Race 1/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
what a complete crock of ****
Its marginal imo that either Massa or JB were ahead, but either way I still thought Massa had to allow enough space for JB to get round given the situation (but thats just on the by and by)
1) Once Massa GIFTED his place to Alonso (and dont try and tell me it was anything else ) that should be the end of it. If Massa isnt even going to fight for the "2nd " place as it were, then everything should be null and void.
2) As Alonso had nothing to do with original incident, I dont see why in anything "fair" (apart from a Ferrari biased F1 system of course) why he should gain a place at the expense of the McLaren team
3) If the stewards werent so slow (and McLaren requested advice as soon as it happend, yet Stewards dont reply for another 2 laps) Jenson would still have been on the Podium. By which time of course Alonso and Massa both pit and FORCE the stewards to give JB a drive through
I think its very wrong that another team can have that kind of affect on a penalty
Either way its good to see the McLaren was easily capable of 2 podiums today on outright pace and seemingly better on its tyres than Ferrari for certain and possibly RB as well (MW for certain required a third stop - Vettel probably did it to be sure rather than from necessity)
I laughed when it was obvious even after the dubious nature of some of their "strategy" calls, Massa STILL ended up well behind JB - just what Ferrari deserved, I was hoping he wouldnt get any points, but never mind
Well done Petrov , he drove an unexciting but decent race without having to deal with too much pressure from behind - well done to Perez & KK as well.
As widely suspected DRS is as useless as ****, if the system was any good JB wouldnt have been in the situation above in the first place - a very slow & wide Ferrari & a narrow track & DRS that does jack **** led to the situation
Due to a racing incident rather than by design - so its not relevant
Its marginal imo that either Massa or JB were ahead, but either way I still thought Massa had to allow enough space for JB to get round given the situation (but thats just on the by and by)
1) Once Massa GIFTED his place to Alonso (and dont try and tell me it was anything else ) that should be the end of it. If Massa isnt even going to fight for the "2nd " place as it were, then everything should be null and void.
2) As Alonso had nothing to do with original incident, I dont see why in anything "fair" (apart from a Ferrari biased F1 system of course) why he should gain a place at the expense of the McLaren team
3) If the stewards werent so slow (and McLaren requested advice as soon as it happend, yet Stewards dont reply for another 2 laps) Jenson would still have been on the Podium. By which time of course Alonso and Massa both pit and FORCE the stewards to give JB a drive through
I think its very wrong that another team can have that kind of affect on a penalty
Either way its good to see the McLaren was easily capable of 2 podiums today on outright pace and seemingly better on its tyres than Ferrari for certain and possibly RB as well (MW for certain required a third stop - Vettel probably did it to be sure rather than from necessity)
I laughed when it was obvious even after the dubious nature of some of their "strategy" calls, Massa STILL ended up well behind JB - just what Ferrari deserved, I was hoping he wouldnt get any points, but never mind
Well done Petrov , he drove an unexciting but decent race without having to deal with too much pressure from behind - well done to Perez & KK as well.
As widely suspected DRS is as useless as ****, if the system was any good JB wouldnt have been in the situation above in the first place - a very slow & wide Ferrari & a narrow track & DRS that does jack **** led to the situation
Due to a racing incident rather than by design - so its not relevant
I thought it would be usable all over the circuit, as it stands it's a waste of time the car in front knows when to expect it and can just pop KER's to totally negate it.
It's being given credit for Button passing Kobayashi though I doubt he would have had much trouble getting past anyway given how much faster he was, it's not going to help similar speed cars pass one another.
What accident? The floor was loose before he went off the track.
I still think that's just red bull controlling the car, no use taking more life out the car than you need, when he needed to make time he did.
What did you expect with the wing?
Just about every pundit and expert even casual observers were not expecting much from it at oz.
As for Button, tough ****. He knew what he did and if he instantly yielded he wouldn't have had an issue. Is he that thick that he thought he would get away with it, when so many others don't.
Very quick smart thinking again by Ferrari while yet again Mclaren dithering costs them.
That said I hate that massa again like so many of these chimps don't give a cars width and forced Button to either go off or have an accident. You wouldn't need stupid wings and Kers if these gimps had to leave a cars width when someone made a move.
Totally agreed dannyjo22 - loved when Alonso overtook Massa forcing the penalty - if I was in that situation I would have done the same thing. Button was just trying to PR out of the error and I smiled when I heard his radio call, not bad coming up with an excuse at those kinds of speeds 
- damn all the TV coverage/evidence 
ps3ud0
- damn all the TV coverage/evidence ps3ud0
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1) Why should he yield to Alonso - he shouldnt have to
2)Team were obviously telling him to wait for Stewards to come back with a decision
3)If that corner had a wall instead of grass Massa would HAVE to give enough space, I dont see why the track surround should make any difference to how a driver reacts
Alonso was ahead of Massa, so by the pitstop Alonso would have got past JB too (given how far ahead JB was of Massa by this point)
Those rules are blatantly wrong and need revisiing in reference to team orders - complete crock of **** imo
It was the Ferrari / Massa pitstop that forced the drive through - nothing else
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Yeah with regards to leaving the track they should just bring back gravel traps everywhere like the one Barrichello beached himself in, if a driver can't keep his car on track he doesn't deserve the points anyway, you don't see drivers slamming the barriers in Monaco because they don't do stupid things when they know there's no easy escape.
My problem with this "did he gain an advantage" rule is that it's only punished when someone actually gains a position and not time, ie. Vettel passed Button and then used the run-off area to accelerate away from Button faster, had he slowed down to stay on track Button could have been closer to fight back in the following corners. Also in Abu Dhabi last season when Alonso was behind Petrov he tried to pass Petrov at the chicane, balls'ed it up and intentionally missed the chicane with his foot down to rejoin the track directly behind Petrov's gearbox.
Not sure where - given the length of hte straights and how equal in performance both cars are
Like last season, the driver infront still needs ot make a mistake or there needs to be a vast performance difference between the cars, before the driver /car behind can get past
The team werent talking to the stewards but race control - 2 seperate groups, one that dish out the punishments, while the other can offer opinions/advice to the teams. Ultimately its up to the team to be informed enough with the rules and make the call in a timely manner before the stewards begin to investigate or the situation on the track becomes too disadvantaged to reclaim...
I agree though its a bit wierd that race control didnt come back to McL before the stewards announced the investigation, but by then Massa had already pitted so that points moot - seeing Ferrari about to pit should have made up McLs mind about how to act, hiding behind 'but race control didnt come back to us' sounds quite childish/weak...
Agreed - perhaps I should have used 'issue' instead of 'penalty'...
ps3ud0
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The team werent talking to the stewards but race control - 2 seperate groups, one that dish out the punishments, while the other can offer opinions/advice to the teams. Ultimately its up to the team to be informed enough with the rules and make the call in a timely manner before the stewards begin to investigate or the situation on the track becomes too disadvantaged to reclaim...
I agree though its a bit wierd that race control didnt come back to McL before the stewards announced the investigation, but by then Massa had already pitted so that points moot - seeing Ferrari about to pit should have made up McLs mind about how to act, hiding behind 'but race control didnt come back to us' sounds quite childish...
ps3ud0
Race Control would still have input to the Stewards (from what I believe)
No it isnt moot because Race Control shouldnt have taken two laps to come back to McLaren imo (the time between the incident and Massa's pit)
Either way - if Massa cant be ****** fighting for the position with Alonso (due to team orders) - why the *** should the stewards enforce the rule in the first place. Its completely farcicle
edit - Brundle mentioned before the race that McLaren had made parts with /coated with Titanium instead of Carbon fibre, I wonder if when the carbon fibre parts arrive thats a significant weight saving to start with.
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I think this is where we will have to agree to disagree, I think the full responsibility falls on the team to react/decide in a timely manner - having the insight of race control, though very useful, isnt essential or a right.
As the BBC pointed out the team have the technology to have real-time access to the coverage (hell everyone thats recording it has
) to make an informed decision in the 2 laps they had and where its still grey it makes sense to assume the worst/err on cqution. Hell get one of their engineers to post on here during the race and we can help them Ferrari using that to their advantage isnt a new thing, so why be so annoyed when they exploited the situation to the full - kudos to them on doing it, which brings me back to my original point that McL just arent the sharpest tools in the box on race day...
ps3ud0
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I think this is where we will have to agree to disagree, I think the full responsibility falls on the team to react/decide in a timely manner - having the insight of race control, though very useful, isnt essential or a right.
As the BBC pointed out the team have the technology to have real-time access to the coverage (hell everyone thats recording it has
Ferrari using that to their advantage isnt a new thing, so why be so annoyed when they exploited the situation to the full - kudos to them on doing it, which brings me back to my original point that McL just arent the sharpest tools in the box on race day...
ps3ud0
I guess you missed the point that JB WAS actually ahead ......and obviously MUCH faster than Massa (through out the race as it happens)
Near the end, where JB was being lapped - why would it make any difference at all? It wasnt for position
he wasn't lapped and it was for position temporarily until JB came into the pits.