Australian Grand Prix 2011, Albert Park Circuit - Race 1/19

JUMPURS · 27 Mar 2011 at 20:06

NathanE said:
There should be a rule that says "If a team fails to qualify for more than 3 consecutive events in a row, they are granted 1 free day of unrestricted testing at a track of their choice."

They should make it if a team can't qualify for 3 consecutive events they are kicked out.

There where other outfits who where desperate to get into F1 last year. Didn't some Russian company have a team ready to go even a few races in?

Don't waste time flogging a dead horse. Let someone else who is serious about making an impact on the sport in.

ps3ud0 · 27 Mar 2011 at 20:07

zootfloot said:
Just in case anyone doesnt know, BBC 4 on Sunday Evening are showing a couple of programs on F1....not sure if they have been shown before but if they have im sure they will be worth another viewing.

8:00pm - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zwmh2

9:00pm - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00z8v18

Also if anyone is a fan of the older F1 seasons then ESPN classic are showing Formula One Retro intermittently through the weeks, no set times it seems but 1979 and 1980 are shown on Monday lunchtime so it might be worth setting the + Boxes

On now...

ps3ud0 :cool:

Demon · 27 Mar 2011 at 20:07

AcidHell2 said:
It is not like checking weights that is a simple non consuming time test and cheap.

If you don't test, teams will simply break the rules.

For downforce, you only need to measure the corner weights as you increase air-flow, if you simplistically imagined (and this isn't how you would do it) a big fan infront of an F1 car which was on corner scales, then switch the fan on and ramp the air speed from 0 - 200MPH in 5 minutes, you'd constantly measure the corner weights, and check against a simple profile..

As for money, I'm not that convinced that having a portable test cell that can generate 200MPH air flow and accomodate an F1 car to satisfy this simple test would be that expensive in the grand scheme of things, especially since it can also do all the static weight tests in the same session. And the amount of containers they shiip around already is phenominal, so 1 or 2 more wouldn't seem out of the question?

Sparky · 27 Mar 2011 at 20:26

Do you know the size and power of the fan you would need to do this? Just for example our fan is approx 20ft diameter with its own mini power plant to run it.

FrankJH · 27 Mar 2011 at 20:49

AcidHell2 said:
he wasn't lapped and it was for position temporarily until JB came into the pits.

sorry I was thinking it was in the last few laps of the race rather than that early

I still think the Massa/ Alonso / JB incident was definitely undeniably pro-ferrari

Without Alonso getting in the middle I would be in complete agreement with everyone - but the way Massa gave away his racing position to Alonso should negate any penalty for Button , if you arent prepared to fight for EVERY position as hard as he was obviously fighting with Button for those several laps previously, in a FAIR system should have made the move reasonable

the Spirit of the rules (yet again) in these kinds of situations has been completely demolished by Ferrari yet again (not only trying to force JB to lose an additional place - but then to force the drive through by pitting Massa)

Seeing as I missed the forum I cant comment on what was said

Glaucus · 27 Mar 2011 at 21:02

FrankJH said:
sorry I was thinking it was in the last few laps of the race rather than that early

Just as a side point, he wasn't lapped anyway.

JUMPURS · 27 Mar 2011 at 21:04

How has the spirit of the rules been demolished by Ferarri?

Button should have yielded the place back straight away.

As for Massa letting Alonso through, Button himself said Massa was out of position, so is it unreasonable to think that Alonso genuinely passed him? How many times have we seen someone defending position, only for them to make a silly mistake and the guy following the squabble also passes at or around the same time.

Also, Massa didn't pit like a dozen laps out of sequence, God forbid Ferarri actually put when they had planned to, and didn't delay it in order as to not offend Buttons delicate sensibilities.

That situation was of Button's making and nobody else's.

Glaucus · 27 Mar 2011 at 21:04

FrankJH said:
the Spirit of the rules (yet again) in these kinds of situations has been completely demolished by Ferrari yet again (not only trying to force JB to lose an additional place - but then to force the drive through by pitting Massa)

I have no problem with this, fair play it's part of F1.
I don't even have a problem with race control not getting back. The rules are there. They should have a team dedicated to learning them. Other teams seem to be very good with this, mclaren seem to be dire.

What the problem is, yet again lack of consistency with Fia and even bigger lack of watching and waiting for a complaint before investigating.

I also think anything that is not under investigation by the end of the race should stick. Other than scruitneering.

joemo13 · 27 Mar 2011 at 21:12

I thought the race was a bit boring.

Mr Jack · 27 Mar 2011 at 21:14

FrankJH said:
I still think the Massa/ Alonso / JB incident was definitely undeniably pro-ferrari

Oh please. If Jenson hadn't been such a tool he'd have immediately given the place back. Alonso might have managed to take a place too, but only because he was reeling both of the in at well over a second a lap. Jenson made a stupid decision and it cost him. End of.

Kerming · 27 Mar 2011 at 21:15

Shimmy said:
That doesn't look convincing at all, it looks like the McLaren hit a bump. You can see the whole nose cone moving a lot. Everything takes a jolt upwards rather than flexing.

The Red Bull on the other hand you can see both end plates flexing towards the floor rather than jumping up and down.

Check out Vettel's pole lap: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9436842.stm

Can see it end plates compress towards the ground at high speeds.

so....your saying when the car hits a bump, both ends of the wing move at the same speed at the same time with no wobble whats so ever?

pff......some how, I think its flexing.

Lopéz · 27 Mar 2011 at 22:09

sunama said:
MSc
I really do wonder if MSc will last the entire season. Why on Earth would a 7 time world champ continue to race in a racing series, where he is getting beaten by his less experienced team-mate? From today's showing, if anybody is going to win for Mercedes, it is going to be Rosberg...not MSc. He is merely tarnishing the reputation which he worked so hard to build in his first career.

Did you even watch the race :confused:

Schumacher got shunted at the first corner and spent the rest of the race at the back of the field in a damaged car.

Demon · 27 Mar 2011 at 22:17

CS||nuTs said:
Do you know the size and power of the fan you would need to do this? Just for example our fan is approx 20ft diameter with its own mini power plant to run it.

Ignoring the technicalities, the more I think about the whole idea anyway, the more the overriding fact that it wouldn't be good for the sport to have what effectively is a very fixed profile for something like this, it's akin to supplying standard engines, or standard bodywork etc, which really isn't in the spirit of F1.

However, the problem remains, how to stop the parade that often occurs when you get a car 2s+ faster, stuck behind a slow car because the aero drop off is that great, and not doing it be artificial means.

As for the technicality, I guess my quick sensibility check looked at the diameter of a small aircraft propeller and imagined something like a small aircraft engine/prop being able to generate 200+MPH in a 2.5-3M small test confined test cell, but I guess 'reflections' inside a small cell would render that test worthless..

Shimmy · 27 Mar 2011 at 22:29

Kerming said:
so....your saying when the car hits a bump, both ends of the wing move at the same speed at the same time with no wobble whats so ever?

pff......some how, I think its flexing.

No, if read again you'll find I said the McLaren looks like it has hit a bump as everything appears to jolt upwards in the .gif which someone has tried to manipulate to make look like wing flex.

The RBR wing on the other hand flexes at the extremities of the wing towards the ground whilst the rest of nose/wing stays vastly stable.

Of course all aero parts will flex a little, especially when hitting a bump.. What we've been discussing for the past year is how the RBR front wing appears to be flexing significantly more than everyone else's probably beyond the 5mm ruling.

MarcLister · 27 Mar 2011 at 22:30

When Alonso was homing in on Button who was trying to get past Massa I had a bit of a thought. It might already have been discussed in this thread but there's been a few pages and I'm not going to go looking for the answer!

If Button was within one second of Massa going onto the pit straight and was therefore able to use his DRS and Massa was unable to do so, what would have happened if Alonso got within one second of Button going onto the pit straight and used his DRS? Obviously Alonso would still have his DRS working but would Button's DRS still work because he got into the DRS zone before Alonso did? :confused:

JUMPURS said:
Didn't some Russian company have a team ready to go even a few races in?

Stefan GP. Serbian team. I think the general media view of them was that they talked the talk but when asked to show off their walk they couldn't get out of the wheelchair so to speak. I.e. they said they were ready but couldn't demonstrate any basic facilties to make, design or run cars let alone actually have any cars to play with.

Sparky · 27 Mar 2011 at 22:31

Demon said:
Ignoring the technicalities, the more I think about the whole idea anyway, the more the overriding fact that it wouldn't be good for the sport to have what effectively is a very fixed profile for something like this, it's akin to supplying standard engines, or standard bodywork etc, which really isn't in the spirit of F1.

However, the problem remains, how to stop the parade that often occurs when you get a car 2s+ faster, stuck behind a slow car because the aero drop off is that great, and not doing it be artificial means.

As for the technicality, I guess my quick sensibility check looked at the diameter of a small aircraft propeller and imagined something like a small aircraft engine/prop being able to generate 200+MPH in a 2.5-3M small test confined test cell, but I guess 'reflections' inside a small cell would render that test worthless..

Forward firing 50mm cannons

Garido · 27 Mar 2011 at 22:40

Did the Sauber rear wing which was later disqualified allow their tyres to be run for a longer distance compared to the other teams or was Perez actually that good that he could climb the field and still use only 2 sets.

gord · 27 Mar 2011 at 23:27

MarcLister said:
If Button was within one second of Massa going onto the pit straight and was therefore able to use his DRS and Massa was unable to do so, what would have happened if Alonso got within one second of Button going onto the pit straight and used his DRS? Obviously Alonso would still have his DRS working but would Button's DRS still work because he got into the DRS zone before Alonso did? .

I had the same thought, but assumed that both Button and Alonso's DRS would be operable. We could have trains of cars on the long straight tracks all fighting for position... 3 abreast into turn 1!

MarcLister · 27 Mar 2011 at 23:56

gord said:
I had the same thought, but assumed that both Button and Alonso's DRS would be operable.

That was my initial thought but we've been told ever since DRS was announced that when a car enters the DRS zone and is within a second of the car in front ONLY the chasing car can use the DRS otherwise it'd be like KERS first time round. Someone chasing another driver on the straight would use KERS to give himself a boost past. The driver being chased would spot this KERS usage and use his own KERS to negate the advantage the chasing driver had.

I'm surprised none of the F1 journo's or commentators have thought about this. I certainly haven't seen or heard of anyone doing so. I would have thought that either Brundle or Coulthard might have spotted it in the GP with Massa/Button/Alonso and either debated it or, if they knew the answer, tell us what would happen if that circumstance happened again.

gord said:
We could have trains of cars on the long straight tracks all fighting for position... 3 abreast into turn 1!

Sounds good to me. :cool:

Not sure that Kobayashi actually needs KERS and DRS, he's perfectly fine overtaking on his own.

Mr Jack · 28 Mar 2011 at 00:25

Garido said:
Did the Sauber rear wing which was later disqualified allow their tyres to be run for a longer distance compared to the other teams or was Perez actually that good that he could climb the field and still use only 2 sets.

It would seem unlikely.