Australian Grand Prix 2015, Melbourne - Race 1/19

I didn't say that, and you can buy everything other than body work and chassis which is what I said.

Dis you also miss the but hey ho part of the original comment?

So they can buy pretty much the entire car, other than aero and the tub which everything bolts to.

And brake cooling, that used to be banned, remember it's not just the physical parts that are banned in the list, it's all the data for those parts. So now they are free to share all braking and suspension data if they wish.

Also reading a few Haas articles, they intend to do their own settings eventually, doesn't mean others will though.

Just watching highlights, don't like that stat, no British driver has ever successfully defended their title. Hopefully Hammy can change that.

Edit, wrong stat jack Brabham won in 59 and 60.
 
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Brake cooling is part of the hub design so yes that can now be bought.

I think your seriously missunderstanding just how much of the car that list covers. From front to back its the wing, the nose, the cockpit, the whole structural chassis of the car, the aero surfaces over it all, the whole floor, the diffuser, all rear bodywork and the rear wing. All they can buy in is the power train and now the suspension arms and wheels and stuff on the end. The only rule change is wishbones, hubs and push/pull rods.

Saying the Haas car is "just" a chassis and mostly Ferrari is like saying a Victoria sponge is mostly jam.
 
I think you are underestimating what isn't included in that list. It is just chassis and aero, every nut, every line if ECU code, every wire, everything inside the car can now be purchased and data shared,
 
Everything like that could always be purchased and shared? Nothing's changed there!

Haas are doing exactly what any team can and do already do? Why are you suddenly taking exception to regulations that have been around for decades?
 
Skeeter said:
Everything like that could always be purchased and shared? Nothing's changed there!

Haas are doing exactly what any team can and do already do? Why are you suddenly taking exception to regulations that have been around for decades?
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Because it's been relaxed.
Brakes and suspension were included on the no share list.
Then there's the change of regulations, making the PU far more important than it used to be and reducing the effect of aero dynamics(although still vital important)
 
Brakes were never on it.

You've taken exception to Haas being able to share brakes, steering wheels, engine maps, packaging, cooling, data, ECUs, wires, nuts etc because "the rules have been changed to allow it", when they haven't. Everyone has always been able to buy in all that stuff, and most do.

The only change to the rules is suspension, which is hardly a massive shift.

Maybe the Haas thing has just enlightened you to just how much kit teams buy in that you didn't realise before? Either way the core design and manufacturer of the car remains with the team.
 
Yes brake cooling was very much in it.

Suspension, is a pretty critical part.

And no other than maybe STR, no one else has such a technical partnership.
 
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Brakes and brake cooling are different things.

Suspension is key, but other than the 2 routes of push or pull rod, is there that much diversity in it? Enough to warrant forcing the teams to design their own? The FIA didn't think so when they recently suggested making it a standardized set of parts.

Why has Haas got you so annoyed?
 
Seeing as there's only two or is it three disc manufactures it's not going to be that is it. Cooling is very much part of the brake system and is the most important data.

I think it's clear the way they are trying to take it to full customer teams, continued relaxation takes it that way.
And personally I don't want to see 3 car manufactures fielding 6 cars each.

And lol, there's huge amount to do on suspension, there's a million and 1 different geometry positions, which were all banned from sharing data.
 
You've come to that conclusion just because suspension has been removed from the List Parts table?

That's quite a leap...

I think what's happened is while the rules have changed a bit, your awareness of just what teams are able to purchase has jumped a lot, and you have unfairly and incorrectly concluded that the rules have been changed to allow Haas to be an almost full customer team, and then you've taken exception to that.

Nothing Haas are doing is something the other teams can't/don't already do. The Ferrari and Haas relationship will be no different, possibly even less tied, than RBR and STR.
 
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smr said:
I just love the way you try to go into so much analytical detail yet fail to mention the fact that button also had a gearbox problem in the last part of the race. Whatever you say a race distance and showing 'some' pace at the end is progress for Mclaren. I dont think anyone saw us being able to fend off Force India for that long. Remember the fight Perez put up against Button in Italy last year... hes no slouch.

The Mclaren was running without ERS and MGU-K in full power mode too.
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First point, I didn't fail to mention it, I didn't know the gearbox had a problem. Second they didn't show any pace... his fastest lap was slower than in qualifying so we know the car can do a 1:31.7xx ish from memory, doing a 1:33.xxx whatever really doesn't make surprise me.

That Hamilton and Rosberg could AVERAGE a race pace that was at the Mclaren's qualifying pace... which was 5 seconds slower than Hamilton's qualifying pace... I see precisely no sign of pace. Being slightly less slow than he'd been all race... but slower than we'd seen the car go also on low fuel... means nothing at all, literally nothing.

Another thing is, a gearbox issue is a bad sign. People have been killing their gearboxes and doing damage because of dodgy kers problems. Largely afaik from say kers kicking in when it shouldn't during shifting which can lead to excess and unexpected RPM changes in the wrong gears. Other cars have also had that problem. So even with kers almost turned off and with a ludicrously slow and conservative engine map.... they are still damaging the gear box through awful electrical systems.

To a large degree the ICE is easy and the hybrid parts are new, complex and hard to get on top of. They were also the biggest difference in quality, speed, efficiency for the Merc engine/team combination over everyone else last year and seemingly this year as well. THe majority of Ferrari's improvement in driveability and efficiency/race pace is based around the MGU-H/k. Honda getting the ICE right wouldn't be surprising, getting the hybrid stuff wrong would be a problem and more likely. 2/3rd's of the engines last year screwed up the hybrid and it made them uncompetitive. Honda by all signs is having massive problems with it's hybrid parts.... that isn't good.


AS for holding off Perez, lol, sure. Firstly they went for an absurdly awful and long first stint, he had to drop behind Mclaren due to the passing under safety, then he managed to run off the track and had to catch up a decent gap to the Mclaren, follow around for a while... then contact trying to pass and at least some damage to the car... dropped back again, caught up the difference very fast. He struggled to get by but in terms of catching up it there was an extreme pace difference to the second least tested and second slowest car on the grid. When Perez finally went past he screamed off into the distance. Perez had a truly horrific race and kept himself behind Button.
 
I still don't understand why they need this, they've limited the amount of fuel they can carry, why does it matter how much they use at any given point in the race?
 
Just reading this article on the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31895202

Hamilton & Rosberg saying they think the Ferraris may mount a challenge to them later in the season and they're looking forward to the fight.

This response from Vettel tells you everything you need to know about him:

Be honest," he said. "Do you really hope so? Seriously? You finished 30 seconds ahead of us and you hope it's going to be closer? So you hope to slow down? Is that what you're saying?
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There are two types of F1 driver. One wants to win in the heat of competition, testing themselves against other teams and drivers as they know any wins or championships are "worth more" as a result. The other type just wants to win and doesn't care how or whether it's because they have a car which is an order of magnitude faster than everyone else.

Vettel is firmly in the latter camp and that's why I'll never regard him as one of the greats. Winning may be winning at the end of the day but history will look back far more favourably on those drivers who had to battle for their wins and championships. Both of Hamilton's championships have been hard fought. Admittedly last year it was only within the Mercedes team but he still had a monumental fight with Rosberg and prevailed despite faring worse in the reliability stakes. Vettel's four championships are worth less in my eyes than Hamilton's two as he had such an advantage during those four years. As with Hamilton last year, he may have had to battle his teammate in the same car but Webber never mounted the challenge that Rosberg did, not because he was an inferior driver per se but more because the nature of the Red Bull with its blown diffuser dynamics suited Vettel's driving style perfectly. He lucked into a situation where he was in the only car capable of taking the title and it suited him far more than his teammate. This was proven beyond all doubt last year when the dynamics of the cars changed and suddenly Vettel was very ordinary, and soundly thrashed by Ricciardo.

So shut your pie hole Seb. More competition is not only better for fans and the sport in general, it lends more "value" and "credibility" to any wins by drivers and teams. True sportsmen want to test themselves against the best and prevail, not coast around with an inherent advantage all the time.
 
Pretty shocking start to the season then. Merc seem to be even further ahead, Martin mentioned during the race we were seeing their "True pace" for some reason. I don't think we did, I wouldn't be supprised if they come close to a minute ahead when things become closer at the front and they push each other, crazy really. How are they so far ahead?

Good to at least see Farrari mixing it up behind with Williams, We can only hope Botas returns quickly to play with Vettel, can see Massa fighting with the ice man mostly. Further back seems to be a bit of a shambles really, with Mclaren doing testing at the rear all season, Alonso might get the clear to return in 2016 if he is lucky ;)

Oh and that Tash....
 
Vertigo1 said:
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A monumental fight last year? Perhaps that says more about hamilton than you want to admit? He had a huge fight with a driver who no one on here rates, a driver that can't race wheel to wheel to save his life. Webber at least could take the fight to Vettel on occassion. Rosberg couldn't once. Lets be honest it was only close because no one could split them despite the gulf in class being big. If the gap to the other teams was closer Rosberg would have been out if it by hungary.

Also are you forgetting the amount of times Hamilton was all defeatest and the title was over or the times he mentioned Vettel just winning because of the car. Hamilton drove a car which if not the most dominant car off all time, the second. Yet somehow you think this make his title any more impressive than Vettels?

If Hamilton wasn't there Rosberg would have won the title. If any of the top 10 were there they would have won the title, that's how dominant the car was. Yet Alonso's 2nd's for ferrari I think there are only a few drivers in recent history who could have run that close to a title in that team. I value those 2nds as a higher achievement than either Vettel or Hamiltons latest title.

He will canter to the title again this year, big deal. Rosberg isn't in his class in the same way people used to say Vettel had a team mate not in his class. Hamilton is not testing himself against the best with Rosberg as a team mate is he? I don't even think Rosberg would stand up well against Webber in his first shot at the title in the red bull, before he was put in his place.

Rosberg was good on saturdays last year and that's about it. His race craft in a car with so much pace was laughable.
 
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Calm said:
I still don't understand why they need this, they've limited the amount of fuel they can carry, why does it matter how much they use at any given point in the race?
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The fuel flow rate is used to limit the power output of the engines. Its like the rev limit on the NAs, or the boost limit on the old turbos. It's regulating a different aspect of the car to the 100kg fuel limit.
 
Has the aussie race actually started yet - the shambles that was yesterday could never be described as a "race" after all.

Really hope Bottas is ok for the next race, that might make it remotely interesting

Hoping McLaren /Honda turn the wick up a bit in the next couple of races, but at least even with a significant gearbox issue they completed the race and hopefully learnt a lot.

Just working out how to work the tyres properly sounds like will give the team a significant performance boost even without anything else....
 
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