Poll: Australian Grand Prix 2022, Melbourne - Race 3

[I_M_Weasel]

It seems daft that a driver could dominate a race with a massive lead, then lose it all to a SC in the closing laps. I guess it will be "less bad" if P1 and P2 aren't a country mile ahead of every else like they were last year (i.e. giving P2 the free pit stop) but generally it seems daft that a SC just wipes out any advantage a driver (in any position actually) has built up.

You would think that the risk of safety car would stop the lead car from dissappearing down the road - no point pulling a big lead and taking the life out of your engine, brakes and tyre's if you are just going to have that time taken away from you by a SC; especially if P2 is saving his car for just a moment.

Of course if you can pull a big enough lead, you might have a pit stop in hand anyway.

 

[jaybee]

Safety car situations like you describe are fact of all motorsport, not just F1. There is no other solution unfortunately as the safety of the marshal's has to be the most important option.
As far as pitting under a safety car is concerned this needs to take place as otherwise there could be cars out on track with either broken wings, or other body parts, or dangerously worn tyres.

There is no time when a car MUST enter the pits for safety where they could not just retire in a safe place instead, or even a non safe place. If they are that unsafe and have bodywork falling off or fluids leaking then they must stop at the side of the track. If it's to come into the pits to retire then that would obviously be fine. What we are saying is basically do not allow "race" pit stops to take place under safety car. i.e. You can not enter the pits under SC unless it is to stop the car. You cannot come in then leave again. If you do you get black flagged. What arguments would there be against this? The only one is that people like the lottery aspect for the weak ducklings at the back like Williams as once per season or so, you can get some fluke situation where a usual tail ender in the wet timed perfectly with SC on top, means they get a point. Wow. I'd rather basically have the leader maintain his delta even if it meant a procession. Other teams can always, you know, go faster and try to compete fairly not relying on luck.

 

[Sui]

I’m quite enjoying the car changes which has mixed things up a lot.

What I hate watching is the cars jumping up and down all over the place, makes it feel like a bad animation or something

 

[jaybee]

You would think that the risk of safety car would stop the lead car from dissappearing down the road - no point pulling a big lead and taking the life out of your engine, brakes and tyre's if you are just going to have that time taken away from you by a SC; especially if P2 is saving his car for just a moment.

Of course if you can pull a big enough lead, you might have a pit stop in hand anyway.

Are you suggesting the leaders don't go all out just in case a safety car comes? Are they to do this every race of every season then just in case? Then at the end when they lose the championship because there were none..? Oh well better luck next time. You cannot make plans based on whether a safety car will or won't come.
At least with rain it is out of anyone's control. That is something we have to hold our hands up and say unlucky to, if it suddenly hacks it down and you are on the wrong part of the track. Fair play. But with SC, it is something we can control, in terms of returning to racing.

 

[I_M_Weasel]

Well, I think we all know that the drivers don't go all out all of the time.

Take the final race of 2021 - hamilton had built a modest, but not insignificant lead over Verstappen - had he instead of building that lead, gone a little slower, then perhaps his tyres would have still been in good enough condition to defend at the restart.

In truth in that scenario, I don't think it does make a difference - new softs should win new hards - never mind part used hards.

So is there any point pulling out a big lead, when a safety car will punish you for it - you may as well get 5-10 seconds ahead and then just match P2. As for the rest of the field; is there any point chasing down a car in front that you know you can't catch - you may as well just match the car behind you and save the car so that if an opportunity does arise, you are in a position to exploit it.

I wouldn't have though this idea is controversial - we see cars settling all the time and just bringing the car home once they've reached as high a position as seems likely.

 

[chrismscotland]

Yeah this. As upsetting as AD was, the reality was that if the SC came out a lap or two before and the crash site was cleared then MV still would have pitted, we would have restarted exactly the same with no cars in-between them, and he would have got past Hamilton "fair and square"*.

It seems daft that a driver could dominate a race with a massive lead, then lose it all to a SC in the closing laps. I guess it will be "less bad" if P1 and P2 aren't a country mile ahead of every else like they were last year (i.e. giving P2 the free pit stop) but generally it seems daft that a SC just wipes out any advantage a driver (in any position actually) has built up.

What are the arguments against banning pit stops under the safety car?

They tried it back in the late 00's and it was unpopular so they scrapped closing the pit-lane - I don't see the issue - its not an F1 specific thing its a feature of motorsport - there's so many of the races which we we all consider to be "greats" that were only that because of a safety car because of an incident or rain, etc.
The safety car is part of the sport, its that random, unknown roll of the dice part of the sport.

Probably also why Brit fans are relishing the Red Bull DNFs quite so much, too.

Speak for yourself maybe, I'm a Brit and couldn't care less who wins as long as its interesting, I'm certainly not relishing Red Bull's DNF's, don't paint everyone with the same nationality with the same brush, we're not all shallow morons cheering misfortune.

 

[jaybee]

Take the final race of 2021 - hamilton had built a modest, but not insignificant lead over Verstappen - had he instead of building that lead, gone a little slower, then perhaps his tyres would have still been in good enough condition to defend at the restart.

In truth in that scenario, I don't think it does make a difference - new softs should win new hards - never mind part used hards.

Even a Williams right behind him on fresh softs at that point would probably have seen him get overtaken.

But anyway, with regard to this race... I voted a 5 because I felt not much really happened. Never really got going. A couple of ok battles but the DRS has become too easy now.

 

[Greboth]

To be fair, the biggest controversy over the pit lane closure before was refuelling. Their only choice was run out of fuel or pit and be penalised which was ridiculous. Now, it could work as you don't have to worry about fuel but all it would do is move the unfairness from those who need to pit to those who haven't yet pitted. It's no better (or worse) just different. The only way it could be made more fair would be only using the VSC and tightening down the delta times, or enforcing a speed limit over the whole track like GT racing does, though there would still be winners and losers depending on where they are when the VSC is called.

 

[jaybee]

Speak for yourself maybe, I'm a Brit and couldn't care less who wins as long as its interesting, I'm certainly not relishing Red Bull's DNF's, don't paint everyone with the same nationality with the same brush, we're not all shallow morons cheering misfortune.

As a Max and CH/Helmut hater, I didn't really take any pleasure in seeing Max DNF tbh. I mean it's not really him getting beaten is it. Over the whole season he will be up there at the end as he has a quick package. I was actually gutted to see Carlos go out like that as well. If ever there was a reminder why we can't just place gravel traps back to fix track limits, that's a good example. We'd lose too many cars that were still perfectly drivable. I feel grass run offs would be better. Maybe grass for the first 3 car widths - like a strip - and then tarmac. That way going off track instantly physically punishes them in lost time so track limits shouldn't even need policing the majority of the time, unless someone completely goes off and cuts gaining time, in which case we usually have sausage curbs and what not to stop it.

 

[Mr Jack]

If ever there was a reminder why we can't just place gravel traps back to fix track limits, that's a good example. We'd lose too many cars that were still perfectly drivable.

Eh, if you drop it, spin across a whole corner and back across the track, ending up stuck in the kitty-litter doesn't seem all that unfair.

 

[jaybee]

To be fair, the biggest controversy over the pit lane closure before was refuelling. Their only choice was run out of fuel or pit and be penalised which was ridiculous. Now, it could work as you don't have to worry about fuel but all it would do is move the unfairness from those who need to pit to those who haven't yet pitted. It's no better (or worse) just different. The only way it could be made more fair would be only using the VSC and tightening down the delta times, or enforcing a speed limit over the whole track like GT racing does, though there would still be winners and losers depending on where they are when the VSC is called.

Yeah. I found the below vid but it leaves me with actually some more questions. It seems there is a very obvious VSC "exploit" which is to fall back then get more of a rolling start when it is about to resume, but it depends on how much notice the drivers are given as to when it is going to restart as to whether that is realistically achievable. The other one is fairly obviously that if you suddenly get a resume and a driver is on a straight, they can resume under full throttle for longer, where as if you are in a bus stop chicane, you are losing out.

 

[jaybee]

Eh, if you drop it, spin across a whole corner and back across the track, ending up stuck in the kitty-litter doesn't seem all that unfair.

Yeah agree. It used to be this way. But it is a bit lame for the fans seeing beached cars that could perfectly well get to the end otherwise. I think we have become used to being able to go off track unpunished too much, but seeing cars make one error and then get beached.... dunno.

 

[touch]

The other one is fairly obviously that if you suddenly get a resume and a driver is on a straight, they can resume under full throttle for longer, where as if you are in a bus stop chicane, you are losing out.

But a driver on a straight needs to be at full throttle for longer to get back to race pace anyway.
If you're driving 30% slower behind VSC then that's a much bigger mph difference on a high speed straight compared to a slow speed corner.

 

[Housey]

Cheers Max, added 10k to the value I (hope) am told...

 

[Psycho Ned]

I would say they could swap it for the Aston F1 car but going by thats performance so far this season.....maybe not

 

[cuke2u]

Stroll is saying he doesn't understand why he was penalised for weaving. Pretty worrying that he's not grasped the rules.

First rule of a F1 driver is to never admit that you are wrong. I'm sure the team will talk to him...

They tried it back in the late 00's and it was unpopular so they scrapped closing the pit-lane - I don't see the issue - its not an F1 specific thing its a feature of motorsport - there's so many of the races which we we all consider to be "greats" that were only that because of a safety car because of an incident or rain, etc.
The safety car is part of the sport, its that random, unknown roll of the dice part of the sport.



Speak for yourself maybe, I'm a Brit and couldn't care less who wins as long as its interesting, I'm certainly not relishing Red Bull's DNF's, don't paint everyone with the same nationality with the same brush, we're not all shallow morons cheering misfortune.

Agreed, as a fellow brit I find the juvenile utterings in here sometimes embarrassing...

 

[jaybee]

The safety car does look to always be going soooo slow. I know it should past the danger zone it is protecting, or to build a gap. Otherwise it really should be going faster. If the car genuinely is at 80/90 % speed, then they should get a faster car for F1. In a yt vid I saw the driver Bernd Maylander claims he drives pretty fast and the passenger says it's fast, but not convinced it's anywhere near the limit of that car. The vids of it being drifted around Bahrain in a demonstration show how fast it can go. That looks quick...but is it? I don't know what lap times it can do.

 

[Housey]

It is being driven very quickly but smoothly. An F1 car is so much quicker than any other car not least road car all will seem slow.

 

[Quartz]

Cheers Max, added 10k to the value I (hope) am told...

I’m sure Jules Bianchi would agree with Max.

 

[Jono8]

Agreed, as a fellow brit I find the juvenile utterings in here sometimes embarrassing...

....

I found it amusing, as amusing as when the British fans cheered when a British drivers drove a Dutch one off the track. It is just good natured banter and absolutely nothing wrong with it. Brazilian and Italian fans are just as passionate at their respective races.
I'm sure Lewis will do his utmost to silence them which will also be fun to see...

This you?