Australian skills shortage

Been to Zurich for work a few times, found it pretty boring tbh - as other places I went to in Switzerland. Not sure I would rather live in Birmingham, but would definitely rather live in the UK. Pretty sure you can still fly all over the place quite cheaply from Birmingham though.
Each to their own. Depends what you want out of life.

Better job opportunities here, better paid compared to the UK, being able to learn a 2nd language. Coming back from the UK last week and being told by everyone "Country is going down hill..You did the right thing to leave". Everything is going up in price and nothing is changing or getting worse.

People move around the world all the time to achieve a better way of living. Down to personal preference.
 
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Yeah it's all backwards and carts an horse up ere in the north.
We sometimes see one of those ' planes ' fly above us from London if the thick industrial smog clears.

Lol, comparing the ability to travel from Switzerland to the rest of Europe( near Geneva?) With the midlands UK.
Not sure if serious?
Yes I am serious
 
He's right. As a French, Brit, Cypriot, I feel I have more in common with the UK than I do when I go to the States or Australia.

We share immense history (back from Roman occupation, the crusades, trying to invade one another, to more recent collaborations and partnerships), and especially societal values. Believe it or not behaviours and cultural breadth are also similar. Our past is steeped in one another and the fact our countries are physically connected also is incredibly important to remember.

Our cultural heritage in the UK and France has been shaped by one another (of course other parts of Europe too) far more significantly than the US/Oz has.

It's hard to see as most of us take language as the measuring element but if you look beyond we have a huge stronger connection with Europe than the other English speaking nations.

The U.K. has a lot of common history with France as you say, but as a Brit living in France, I’m of the opinion that France is rather different to the U.K. or any English speaking Commonwealth country.

Politics is very different with a number of near centre parties contesting elections. Don’t forget that La France is still both a socialist republic and a deeply catholic country. Despite the main state services being online, both your local Mairie (town/village) and the Department Prefecture (County Council/Local Governmen) play a big part in how you live your life and interact with the State.

The legal system is very different with French solicitors and lawyers being employed by the State. Many French laws (particularly inheritance) date back to Napoleon and take some getting used to. As I still have a U.K. driving licence (because the then U.K. Minister of Transport screwed up the arrangement that the were French were offering), I have to carry my Resident’s Card with me as my driving license is still valid for driving, but no longer recognised for ID purposes. Every French citizen gets issued an ID card free of charge, but possessing one or carrying them isn’t enforced by the State as long as you have some form of State issued ID on you. Oddly enough, the State issued Carte Vitale (health care card) isn’t recognised as ID.

Banks are rather different as well. Your bank branch is actually a separate franchise of Bank X to the one in the next town and they only join up at a regional level. I once used the auto deposit drawer at my nearest bank branch to deposit both cheques and some cash. The cheques cleared into my account as the bank has a central cheque handling office. The cash didn’t and was waiting for me two weeks later when I went into the local branch again to find out why. As the local branch wasn’t my designated branch and actually is across a Regional and Departmental border, they could handle cash from me at all. My card still works in all their ATMs for all other services though.

Cheques are still a thing here and heaven help you if La France thinks you’ve knowingly written a bad check as the Bank of France can block you from holding a French bank account for X years which would make living here almost impossible now as just about all transactions are electronic. Oh, and you pay a monthly charge for having a bank account here. How much depends on what services you use. You can get a normal Debit card and you can get a Credit card which automatically takes payment from the current account it’s linked to at the end of the month. Having an actual credit card that you’re used to requires you to be employed and/or reasonably minted.

The health care system here is very different to the U.K. with every single provider of care from your local GP up to the big hospitals being utterly private businesses with State oversight. You pay for treatment at the point of treatment and, depending on your age, income and a number of different factors, the health care system pays a percentage back to you. Most people take out health insurance against serious medical issues which is called a “mutuelle“ which basically covers your costs for any stay in hospital and ongoing care. For someone in their 50s with no existing health issues, that’s €60 a month.

The entire system is geared towards preventative care and rapid treatment. Even during Covid lockdown, you could see your GP who would refer you to a specialist if necessary and would see you within a week or two. If you need treatment, you’ll be booked into a clinic ASAP. Blood tests, X-rays and MRIs etc are carried out by specialis laboratories near to the clinics and used give you, yes give you the results the next working day with your doctor and consultant getting a copy. You get the full data and the summary report. Had an MRI? You’ll be given a CD-ROM which will play your entire scan back to you as a movie if you have a PC.

Did I mention religion? France is still a catholic country with a considerable Amount of the population being regular church goers. Tradition is very important, especially out in rural France which has an older population than the cities and big towns. People (like entitled middle class Brits) rocking up from elsewhere and wanting things changed to suit them is a great way to **** off the locals and guarantee any reasonable request you might make via the Mairie is dealt with at old school French bureaucratic pace. That’s also a thing here. Anything involving the apparatus of the State (such as Residence Card applications) takes as long as it takes. It’ll get there in the end, but it’ll take its own sweet time and you can’t change it. In fact, you’ll just annoy the department working on your application if you attempt to hurry them along.

Patriotism isn’t frowned on here and the French take great pride in La France’s success in all things. There was almost a national day of mourning after Les Bleus lost to Argentina. The supermarkets make a big deal out of promoting French and especially local products and you might well see a sign above the eggs in your local Intermarché telling you that the farmer who supplied lives just around the corner. Fruit and veg is seasonal and if you want something out of season, it’ll be tinned. If it’s not French, they’re be a very obvious sign telling you, even in Lidl and Aldi.
 
The Republic of Ireland is not the EU: the EU is not the Republic of Ireland. We were connected with the EU in a similar way but not anymore, to our detriment as all the evidence inevitably indicates.
The Republic of Ireland (listed as Ireland on the EU website) is in the EU.

As a British citizen (non-EU person), under the common travel agreement, you can live and work there just like an Irish citizen can live and work here.

The path to Irish citizenship is lowers for UK people as we don't use the residency calculator. So you can stay, I think 5 years in Ireland, then apply for citizenship. You'd immediately become an EU citizen.

I'm surprised you don't know this already as its been discussed before by those who wanted back in the EU.

 
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Culturally NZ is way ahead of Oz in my opinion. Whilst I don't mind Australia and have family and friends there I far prefer the life and integration in NZ. However I'm with you, it's just too far away.

Lived and worked in NZ for a bit, all be it 20 odd years ago, things may have changed since then.

But I very much regret coming back to the UK, in my opinion the quality of life is so much better there.

I got married and kids etc so not feasible we could move now, I would the Mrs wouldn't and I guess maybe unfair to relocate the kids.

I do miss it there though, good memories.
 
Lived and worked in NZ for a bit, all be it 20 odd years ago, things may have changed since then.

But I very much regret coming back to the UK, in my opinion the quality of life is so much better there.

I got married and kids etc so not feasible we could move now, I would the Mrs wouldn't and I guess maybe unfair to relocate the kids.

I do miss it there though, good memories.

I feel the same. I want to move from the UK but with kids and the wife it feels harder to do. That said I get head hunted a fair bit so maybe I'll push for a move next time the right offer shows itself.
 
From a smallish group of a mix of nineteen childhood, civilian & ex-military friends/colleagues (all 40-55yo) that I still maintain daily/weekly contact with, I have seen 2 move to Canada (both 10y+) and 3 move to Australia (two 10y+ and one 5y+) and 1 to New Zealand (20y+) and none seem to have regretted their decisions to leave, all have been able to find "good" jobs (role varies per person) and none seem to want to come back to the UK permanently any time soon.

Yet from the "still stuck in the UK" group almost everyone of us is down-heartened by the current state of the UK over the past 5+ years and, with only seeing things getting worse, most of us dreamily chat about doing the same as our other mates and leaving the UK, even if it's very unlikely to happen in reality (family, jobs, age, money etc).

I think that none of what my small group have experienced with our desire to stay/leave, so far, bodes well for the long term future of the UK, as all of us bar 1 is in some form of STEM role which seem to be something lots of other countries also need right now.
 
From a smallish group of a mix of nineteen childhood, civilian & ex-military friends/colleagues (all 40-55yo) that I still maintain daily/weekly contact with, I have seen 2 move to Canada (both 10y+) and 3 move to Australia (two 10y+ and one 5y+) and 1 to New Zealand (20y+) and none seem to have regretted their decisions to leave, all have been able to find "good" jobs (role varies per person) and none seem to want to come back to the UK permanently any time soon.

Yet from the "still stuck in the UK" group almost everyone of us is down-heartened by the current state of the UK over the past 5+ years and, with only seeing things getting worse, most of us dreamily chat about doing the same as our other mates and leaving the UK, even if it's very unlikely to happen in reality (family, jobs, age, money etc).

I think that none of what my small group have experienced with our desire to stay/leave, so far, bodes well for the long term future of the UK, as all of us bar 1 is in some form of STEM role which seem to be something lots of other countries also need right now.

Over Christmas I saw someone I went to school with. Its been over 25 years since I last saw her. She asked if I still see anyone from school, I told her not really because I no longer live in the UK. Her response was "Why is everyone moving away from the UK!?!?!?"

I told her because there is so much more to the world than the UK and London. People who left realised that, including me.
 
From a smallish group of a mix of nineteen childhood, civilian & ex-military friends/colleagues (all 40-55yo) that I still maintain daily/weekly contact with, I have seen 2 move to Canada (both 10y+) and 3 move to Australia (two 10y+ and one 5y+) and 1 to New Zealand (20y+) and none seem to have regretted their decisions to leave, all have been able to find "good" jobs (role varies per person) and none seem to want to come back to the UK permanently any time soon.

Yet from the "still stuck in the UK" group almost everyone of us is down-heartened by the current state of the UK over the past 5+ years and, with only seeing things getting worse, most of us dreamily chat about doing the same as our other mates and leaving the UK, even if it's very unlikely to happen in reality (family, jobs, age, money etc).

I think that none of what my small group have experienced with our desire to stay/leave, so far, bodes well for the long term future of the UK, as all of us bar 1 is in some form of STEM role which seem to be something lots of other countries also need right now.

Bit of a mixed bag with my mates, I'm older though (50 this year). Lots of mates have stuck around and lots have left for Canada, USA, New Zealand and Australia. What I will say though is that of the ones that left, every one of them is doing well, those that are still in the UK it ranges from doing well all the way to making do. I have several mates that are miserable. The next few years I think will be telling in the UK, many things will be coming home to roost and I think its going to be a pretty poor place to live for a while. I have friends who have lost jobs before Xmas and some staring that prospect in the face in the new year.

We’ve thought of leaving, very nearly did once over but having late kids we don’t think it would be fair to remove them from the grandparents lives now. I only have 10 years more work to think about anyway….
 
The U.K. has a lot of common history with France as you say, but as a Brit living in France, I’m of the opinion that France is rather different to the U.K. or any English speaking Commonwealth country.

Politics is very different with a number of near centre parties contesting elections. Don’t forget that La France is still both a socialist republic and a deeply catholic country. Despite the main state services being online, both your local Mairie (town/village) and the Department Prefecture (County Council/Local Governmen) play a big part in how you live your life and interact with the State.

The legal system is very different with French solicitors and lawyers being employed by the State. Many French laws (particularly inheritance) date back to Napoleon and take some getting used to. As I still have a U.K. driving licence (because the then U.K. Minister of Transport screwed up the arrangement that the were French were offering), I have to carry my Resident’s Card with me as my driving license is still valid for driving, but no longer recognised for ID purposes. Every French citizen gets issued an ID card free of charge, but possessing one or carrying them isn’t enforced by the State as long as you have some form of State issued ID on you. Oddly enough, the State issued Carte Vitale (health care card) isn’t recognised as ID.

Banks are rather different as well. Your bank branch is actually a separate franchise of Bank X to the one in the next town and they only join up at a regional level. I once used the auto deposit drawer at my nearest bank branch to deposit both cheques and some cash. The cheques cleared into my account as the bank has a central cheque handling office. The cash didn’t and was waiting for me two weeks later when I went into the local branch again to find out why. As the local branch wasn’t my designated branch and actually is across a Regional and Departmental border, they could handle cash from me at all. My card still works in all their ATMs for all other services though.

Cheques are still a thing here and heaven help you if La France thinks you’ve knowingly written a bad check as the Bank of France can block you from holding a French bank account for X years which would make living here almost impossible now as just about all transactions are electronic. Oh, and you pay a monthly charge for having a bank account here. How much depends on what services you use. You can get a normal Debit card and you can get a Credit card which automatically takes payment from the current account it’s linked to at the end of the month. Having an actual credit card that you’re used to requires you to be employed and/or reasonably minted.

The health care system here is very different to the U.K. with every single provider of care from your local GP up to the big hospitals being utterly private businesses with State oversight. You pay for treatment at the point of treatment and, depending on your age, income and a number of different factors, the health care system pays a percentage back to you. Most people take out health insurance against serious medical issues which is called a “mutuelle“ which basically covers your costs for any stay in hospital and ongoing care. For someone in their 50s with no existing health issues, that’s €60 a month.

The entire system is geared towards preventative care and rapid treatment. Even during Covid lockdown, you could see your GP who would refer you to a specialist if necessary and would see you within a week or two. If you need treatment, you’ll be booked into a clinic ASAP. Blood tests, X-rays and MRIs etc are carried out by specialis laboratories near to the clinics and used give you, yes give you the results the next working day with your doctor and consultant getting a copy. You get the full data and the summary report. Had an MRI? You’ll be given a CD-ROM which will play your entire scan back to you as a movie if you have a PC.

Did I mention religion? France is still a catholic country with a considerable Amount of the population being regular church goers. Tradition is very important, especially out in rural France which has an older population than the cities and big towns. People (like entitled middle class Brits) rocking up from elsewhere and wanting things changed to suit them is a great way to **** off the locals and guarantee any reasonable request you might make via the Mairie is dealt with at old school French bureaucratic pace. That’s also a thing here. Anything involving the apparatus of the State (such as Residence Card applications) takes as long as it takes. It’ll get there in the end, but it’ll take its own sweet time and you can’t change it. In fact, you’ll just annoy the department working on your application if you attempt to hurry them along.

Patriotism isn’t frowned on here and the French take great pride in La France’s success in all things. There was almost a national day of mourning after Les Bleus lost to Argentina. The supermarkets make a big deal out of promoting French and especially local products and you might well see a sign above the eggs in your local Intermarché telling you that the farmer who supplied lives just around the corner. Fruit and veg is seasonal and if you want something out of season, it’ll be tinned. If it’s not French, they’re be a very obvious sign telling you, even in Lidl and Aldi.
Excellent, just what I needed to demonstrate my point,I have never lived in France so can't draw the comparison but all of the facts show that its very different to what we would accept in the UK.

Enforcing ID cards being carried - that wont fly in the uk or australia.
 
Bit of a mixed bag with my mates, I'm older though (50 this year). Lots of mates have stuck around and lots have left for Canada, USA, New Zealand and Australia. What I will say though is that of the ones that left, every one of them is doing well, those that are still in the UK it ranges from doing well all the way to making do. I have several mates that are miserable. The next few years I think will be telling in the UK, many things will be coming home to roost and I think its going to be a pretty poor place to live for a while. I have friends who have lost jobs before Xmas and some staring that prospect in the face in the new year.

We’ve thought of leaving, very nearly did once over but having late kids we don’t think it would be fair to remove them from the grandparents lives now. I only have 10 years more work to think about anyway….

With this so called recession coming, it only seems to be hitting the Boomer Generation and they are worried :(

While myself part of the Millennials, we are not facing such fate. If we do then most of us have the technical skills to find another job quickly.
 
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Coming back from the UK last week and being told by everyone "Country is going down hill..You did the right thing to leave". Everything is going up in price and nothing is changing or getting worse.
That is pretty much just part of the UK mentality. "This country is going to the dogs" has been said by many generations. That said, the austerity policies of last 10 years or so + brexit have left us performing less well than we would have compared to competing countries.

Bit of a mixed bag with my mates, I'm older though (50 this year). Lots of mates have stuck around and lots have left for Canada, USA, New Zealand and Australia. What I will say though is that of the ones that left, every one of them is doing well, those that are still in the UK it ranges from doing well all the way to making do. I have several mates that are miserable.

Are the ones who left just people who have more get up and go and valuable skills and would have been doing better than the losers in the group if they'd stayed here anyway?
 
Each to their own. Depends what you want out of life.

Better job opportunities here, better paid compared to the UK, being able to learn a 2nd language. Coming back from the UK last week and being told by everyone "Country is going down hill..You did the right thing to leave". Everything is going up in price and nothing is changing or getting worse.

People move around the world all the time to achieve a better way of living. Down to personal preference.
When I lived and worked in Europe as a contractor, pretty much everyone I knew who tried Zurich or Geneva left within a year, because it was such a dull place to live. I think the only place more dull I've worked is Luxembourg. But each to their own.

I'd gladly work again in Germany (Munich especially), but I have a family now, and a wider family in the UK who I'd like my kids to grow up knowing and going out with regularly, instead of the odd flying visit or Zoom calls.
 
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When I lived and worked in Europe as a contractor, pretty much everyone I knew who tried Zurich or Geneva left within a year, because it was such a dull place to live. I think the only place more dull I've worked is Luxembourg. But each to their own.

I'd gladly work again in Germany (Munich especially), but I have a family now, and a wider family in the UK who I'd like my kids to grow up knowing and going out with regularly, instead of the odd flying visit or Zoom calls.
I actually ended up in Switzerland because an follow OCUK forum member helped me get a job here. He has been living here way before I did and settled. So anywhere can be boring if you don't make the use of where you are living.

If you have been working in Europe as a contractor then you pretty much know not many have a very high opinion about the UK and living there either, especially since Brexit, so lets get that out the way first :D

I have been here for coming upto 4 years, made use of my time here especially learning a new language. Got plenty of friends here from all parts of the world. Some been here over 10 years, some have settled with partners. Including people from the UK and spent of their lives in London. They are not going back. So not every I have met wants to leave here.

If you have nothing keeping you in one location then of course you going to pack your bags and leave.

My parents are originally from Jamaica, had an opportunity to move England in the 60's. They took it and never looked back. Some would say "why did they leave a hot country to move to cold England" Not everyone is the same, you go where the opportunities are.
 
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That is pretty much just part of the UK mentality. "This country is going to the dogs" has been said by many generations. That said, the austerity policies of last 10 years or so + brexit have left us performing less well than we would have compared to competing countries.
I have noticed this as well. UK mentality is very self flagellating. I think it’s just engrained in the culture to always look at things very pessimistically. It’s been like that for decades if not longer.
 
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