Auto or manual

Justintime said:
Will there even be a manual option in a few years? Aren't most exotics already auto? Seems with Hybrids and EV being the future its a dead end.
Click to expand...

People want manuals, but manufacturers dont want to sell them because its easier to fudge emissions tests with an auto. The T50 is a manual though :)

Sports cars get slated when there is no manual option. It probably does hurt sales. The A110 and Supra dont seem to be selling all that well, many people said they would wait for a manual but it never appeared.
 
Kenai said:
I think the latest generations of BMWs are doing this now - certainly recall seeing it mentioned in reviews of things like the M340i and X3 M40i recently.
Click to expand...

Ah ok thanks
I mean it makes sense in a way, but on the road ffs, come on its going to make so little diff

But I suppose marketing "our intelligent boxes also look ahead and get you in the perfect gear for best road performance or the gentlest serene drive depending on your choice" yeah I can predict the sales guff ;)
 
I said I would never get an auto car, but the later 140i's only had the option for an auto, and that was the car I really wanted.

I've not really missed a manual if I'm honest! The ZF box is widely regarded as a great auto box, and I've not had any issues or complaints with it.
 
ScoobyDoo69 said:
To go against the echo chamber...

I enjoy changing gears, be it under normal driving conditions, or driving for fun. Do I "feel" like a real driver? No, I just prefer it.
Click to expand...
I agree to an extent, there is no way I'd want to lose the manual box in my MX5. My Leon company car however I'd much prefer as an auto.

I guess for me the main difference is am I going for a drive or am I simply going somewhere by car.
 
Nasher said:
People want manuals, but manufacturers dont want to sell them because its easier to fudge emissions tests with an auto. The T50 is a manual though :)

Sports cars get slated when there is no manual option. It probably does hurt sales (the A110 and Supra dont seem to be selling all thay well).
Click to expand...

Seemingly more and more people are choosing the more expensive auto box
Plenty of cars never had, some even still I dont think have the auto option, often lower specs could not have an auto so its hard to say no one wanted them, plus of course small engines and autos were truly awful not that long ago
Its not easier to fudge the test as such, its just inherently the auto can be made to by default generate less than a typical human will, and will probably get closer in real world driving sice the computer for the test is that same one as the real world, where as the driver will obviously be different who is choosing when to change gear

The reality is sports cars are a small section of the marketplace and the wants of a typical £50k and up sports car are likely to be different from the main buying public
 
as predicted the bmw (gps) predictive box looks marmite, maybe the F11's all right now

https://youtu.be/nWIfaS5Ties

The gearbox is doing my nut. I read before I bought it that it was super smooth, the best BMW put in a car, yada yada, mine isn't. It's dim witted IMO, say your coasting to slow down coming up to a roundabout, at around 20mph dropping speed it's like it's mistiming a gear change, so you get a slight jolt, think of when you shift down (say from 4 to 3) and the revs go up, you get that forward jolt, would be the best way to describe it, then, if you lightly press the accelerator, nothing happens and I swear this catches me out everytime, I give it a tiny bit more gas and jolt!, as it eventually realizes I've hit the gas and want to move forward. It's the clearest way I can explain it.
Click to expand...
 
One of the other things that is driving the demise of manual transmissions is emission and regulations - a performance manual needs close ratio gears, 6 of them usually and delivering this performance is not kind to the environment - most manual cars of this irk have much higher emissions than an auto variant => higher VED

Also these gear boxes are highly precise mechanical designs that can handle lots of torque and power which does not come cheap, the Subaru 6MT is about £11k to buy new - most similar gear boxes from Ford, BMW, Honda etc would be around the same cost and with most assemblies taken up my auto transmission cars its not economically viable for many manufacturers to run sperate lines

I tend to ignore VED and mpg and just buy something I enjoy driving which is why I never owned a diesel
 
ericmcn said:
which is why I never owned a diesel
Click to expand...

Not a huge diesel fan but the V9X in my truck has some redeeming features - shame it randomly gets some turbo lag though not as bad as diesel generally as the rest of the time it is pretty nice and sounds nothing like a diesel (in person - for some reason on my dashcam it has more of a dag dag sound than it does in person but that is probably due to it being an ultra cheap dashcam).
 
ericmcn said:
One of the other things that is driving the demise of manual transmissions is emission and regulations - a performance manual needs close ratio gears, 6 of them usually and delivering this performance is not kind to the environment - most manual cars of this irk have much higher emissions than an auto variant => higher VED

Also these gear boxes are highly precise mechanical designs that can handle lots of torque and power which does not come cheap, the Subaru 6MT is about £11k to buy new - most similar gear boxes from Ford, BMW, Honda etc would be around the same cost and with most assemblies taken up my auto transmission cars its not economically viable for many manufacturers to run sperate lines

I tend to ignore VED and mpg and just buy something I enjoy driving which is why I never owned a diesel
Click to expand...

6 gears is an emissions thing. 5 speed boxes are often stronger as the gears are chunkier.

On more performance focused cars you usually get straighter cut gears as well, so less performance loss but more noise.
 
Last edited:
Nasher said:
6 gears is an emissions thing. 5 speed boxes are often stronger as the gears are chunkier.

On more performance focused cars you usually get straighter cut gears as well, so less performance loss but more noise.
Click to expand...

The 5 speed Subaru box is good for about 300-350BHP, tops...unless you like getting a new box, the gears are narrow and weak and shafts thin. The TY856 6MT on the Subaru is a different beast is good for about 700+BHP easily, and with a long rage gear mod is good for about 190mph if your engine can handle it. Most 5 speed owners wish they had a 6MT and many swap over to one
 
Last edited:
ericmcn said:
The 5 speed Subaru box is good for about 300-350BHP, tops...unless you like getting a new box, the gears are narrow and weak and shafts thin. The TY856 6MT on the Subaru is a different beast is good for about 700+BHP easily, and with a long rage gear mod is good for about 190mph if your engine can handle it. Most 5 speed owners wish they had a 6MT and many swap over to one
Click to expand...

They aren't all like that. The old 5 speed Toyota gearboxes are tougher than the 6 speeds.

On some the gear ratio in 5th is pretty much the same as later 6 speed models. But you have to shift less :p
 
Last edited:
We've got a 5 Speed Torque converter auto (Jeep) , a 6 Speed Dual Clutch (Skoda) and a 6 Speed Manual (Ford).

Still can't stand the Auto or DSG boxes, they are never in the right gear and whilst they might change faster they do it at the totally wrong times like shifting up to 6th 2 seconds before I want it in 3rd to floor it.

So whilst in the manual that maneuver off the roundabout goes 1st > 2nd > 3rd > Floor it > 6th. In the Skoda DSG it's 1st> 2nd> 3rd> 4th> 5th> 6th > Floor it and wait whilst it ponders for what feels like forever > 4th > 3rd > 4th> 5th > 6th, the bloody thing is allover the place.
 
If you had shift paddle or even the manual select it kind of resolves that issue, but I too recognise and share the frustrations of auto.
 
Nasher said:
People want manuals, but manufacturers dont want to sell them because its easier to fudge emissions tests with an auto. The T50 is a manual though :)

Sports cars get slated when there is no manual option. It probably does hurt sales. The A110 and Supra dont seem to be selling all that well, many people said they would wait for a manual but it never appeared.
Click to expand...

The T50 can also be bought with a paddle shift auto, and this is the only gearbox available on the track version.

Ferrari stopped selling manuals as when they introduced the F1 gearbox something like 95% of their customers went for it, so there was no point in offering the alternative. Same with the Golf R estate. Auto sales in the hatch was over 90%, so no point in offering the manual. As for the Alpine, its exceeded its sales targets, so not really a flop.

Nasher said:
6 gears is an emissions thing. 5 speed boxes are often stronger as the gears are chunkier.

On more performance focused cars you usually get straighter cut gears as well, so less performance loss but more noise.
Click to expand...

6 speeds gives you better performance as you can use lower and closer ratios for 1-5 and have 6th that is taller than the existing 5th.

Strength is only going to be an issue if the 6 speed box that uses the same (or very similar) size envelope to the 5 speeder. If the box is a ground up design for 6 speeds then it can be made large enough to accommodate gears that are as large as, if not larger, than the 5 speed ones.
 
Nasher said:
People want manuals, but manufacturers dont want to sell them because its easier to fudge emissions tests with an auto. The T50 is a manual though :)

Sports cars get slated when there is no manual option. It probably does hurt sales. The A110 and Supra dont seem to be selling all that well, many people said they would wait for a manual but it never appeared.
Click to expand...

It's because the people who want manuals and the people who buy brand new cars are different circles on the Venn diagram.

GT86 is a perfect example. Rubbish sales new, really popular and thus holding value well when used.
 
The demise of the manual gearbox is more due to the driving aids that are slowly becoming mandatory. Besides what's the point of a car that can drive itself in traffic, such as my A4, then have a manual gearbox...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom