Depends on the car. Autos are faster, easier, more efficient and generally no less reliable, so there's no real objective reason not to have one. But I still enjoy a manual gearbox in anything designed with driving enjoyment in mind.
Soldato
Thing is the trend is clear and progressing fast, faster, easier, more efficient is that not what the majority of car owners would choose? Of course it is.
Once manuals become a pain for manufacturers, because simply autos are better most of the time (for most of the people) and even with the premium they are rapidly becoming more popular, then they are going to start charging more or at least the same for manuals and at that point it will skew even harder
And as pointed out auto boxes can also be tuned to match an engine tune or just for different drive characteristics
Manual boxes are basically unchanged for 20 years now (since 6th became the standard) where as auto boxes are advancing quite well still
Eventually manual boxes will go the way of the crank starting handle and the manual choke, I bet some people thought they were better and argued that point as well
Once manuals become a pain for manufacturers, because simply autos are better most of the time (for most of the people) and even with the premium they are rapidly becoming more popular, then they are going to start charging more or at least the same for manuals and at that point it will skew even harder
And as pointed out auto boxes can also be tuned to match an engine tune or just for different drive characteristics
Manual boxes are basically unchanged for 20 years now (since 6th became the standard) where as auto boxes are advancing quite well still
Eventually manual boxes will go the way of the crank starting handle and the manual choke, I bet some people thought they were better and argued that point as well
Yeah I've definitely got a lot of love for the creep function - in traffic jams, etc. it is bliss.
Eventually manual boxes will go the way of the crank starting handle and the manual choke, I bet some people thought they were better and argued that point as well
I don't think anyone ever has, but then, neither of those things have ever been considered intrinsic to the driving experience, so a bit of an unfair comparison I feel. And I don't think anyone who says they prefers a manual claims they are better...its an entirely subjective thing.
Soldato
Apart from Nasher, eric, task, flame plus a few others who all put forward differing arguments why manuals are better from autos breaking, to being horrible to making you a lazy driver etc
Other then them yeah, no one
well if you are so sure you wont ever go back to a manual I can only assume you have never driven a proper one. I have driven high end Lexus/Merc Autos, and Manuals from about 10 marques.. the standout for me is the Subaru manual. Autos are well and good but they cant compete with that driver interaction a manual provides
I used to think that - but I've learnt to manipulate the hell out of mine - if I want to I can get very slotted into the interaction - after awhile you learn how and when it shifts and how to get it to do that early or delay that, selectively utilise kick-down and the variety of sport and drive ranges, etc. or I can just sit back and let it do the work and at least in my truck it meshes pretty seamlessly with my driving (most of the time).
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Apart from Nasher, eric, task, flame plus a few others who all put forward differing arguments why manuals are better from autos breaking, to being horrible to making you a lazy driver etc
Other then them yeah, no one
I have driven cars since the mid-90s. every type of car and its pretty evident that most people on here have not driven a high-performance manual. if you have its evident within a few minutes it’s not a normal transmission you are dealing with. Autos are great in congested cities; I get that and I would have one if I was stuck in traffic all the time but they are not fun or engaging to drive. Manual cars require more concentration and its easy to see why such a driver would be safer
The vast majority of cars now a leased out rather than purchased so owners don't care about maintenance or upkeep and most of these cars are made automatic by the manufacturer
watch the Nissan 200SX clip and tell me you think an auto is going to even get close to that feedback from that car - its not going to happen
Soldato
I dont disagree having been driving slightly longer than you
My point still remains that most people dont care its more engaging, most people dont care for a performance manual, for most people an auto is better by practically every metric
I sold my impreza back in around 2005 as it was too capable at sensible speeds for the road, I had more fun 5 years later in a puma i bought for under 5% of the imprezas cost
Soldato
I know its an old school auto but my first car was a 2002 Focus 1.6 Auto by virtue of it being an absolute bargain/giveaway almost at £3000 in 2004 as my best mate sold me it when his nan died and left him it, he knew i was saving for one and gave it to me really for that price. Was ok but every car i've had since was a manual, just like banging gears!
Caporegime
No I'm referring to the Mini. I wanted the auto and she wanted the manual
@[TW]Fox had (still has I think) an old e39 530i Sport Manual - arguably an odd choice for a 5 series but a great gearbox in its own right nonetheless - I’d bear that in mind before casting judgement on his views....
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Apart from Nasher, eric, task, flame plus a few others who all put forward differing arguments why manuals are better from autos breaking, to being horrible to making you a lazy driver etc
Other then them yeah, no one
Fair. Anyone with any sense, then
Still, I'm fine with saying that manuals are objectively worse. But I would still prefer the option to have one in a sports car at least. I understand that they're obsolete, but to compare them to starter handles, manual chokes, etc is missing the point a bit.
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Maybe he's sure he won't ever go back to a manual for other reasons?
Claiming that anyone who doesn't want a manual simply hasn't driven a good one is silly. Because no matter how good a manual gearbox is at providing driver interaction, it's still more work, slower and now, generally, less fuel efficient. They might offer more in "driver interaction", but if you're not particularly interested in that, there isn't really a reason to have one. I'm sure Fox is well aware what makes a "good" manual gearbox...doesn't mean he has to live with one when an auto is better for his requirements.
As for "manuals take more concentration and therefore make you a better driver..."
come off it. You could just as easily make the argument that automatics make you safer because less of the driver's time is spent dealing with the unnecessary action of switching gears.Honestly, you don't have to go all Troy Queef to justify manual gearboxes. It's fine to say you prefer a good manual and be done with it. Claiming that people who don't prefer them are somehow ignorant about how enjoyable they can be, as if that's the only metric that matters, is silly.
Soldato
Lol, after all this time a question to move from manual to auto, when pretty much all the new cars over the next decade aren't going to suffer the requirement of a gear box at all.
Anyone know what wheels I should get for my horse cart? I heard the one with metal rims last longer on the cobblestones.
Anyone know what wheels I should get for my horse cart? I heard the one with metal rims last longer on the cobblestones.
do the police spec manual in traffic cars ?
haven't yet bought an auto, but I think theres a range of driving behaviour on the road where you can see impact of automatic
- approaching roundabouts, people braking as opposed to engine braking, and, also not being in the right gear to negotiate/join roundabout,
people who then stop unnecessarily at roundabouts because they can't control the gear they need, that's a dumbing down of skill.
- overtaking, people drifting past, because they haven't down-shifted before-hand to provide quicker response once they decide to proceed,
so their exposure, and mine, being overtaken, is longer
- even, bends in the road, people brakeing because they can't employ engine braking.
haven't yet bought an auto, but I think theres a range of driving behaviour on the road where you can see impact of automatic
- approaching roundabouts, people braking as opposed to engine braking, and, also not being in the right gear to negotiate/join roundabout,
people who then stop unnecessarily at roundabouts because they can't control the gear they need, that's a dumbing down of skill.
- overtaking, people drifting past, because they haven't down-shifted before-hand to provide quicker response once they decide to proceed,
so their exposure, and mine, being overtaken, is longer
- even, bends in the road, people brakeing because they can't employ engine braking.
Why does it matter what method is used to slow the car down? I was always taught that engine braking shouldn't be used as the primary method of slowing the car anyway. Besides, automatics still brake on the engine when you lift off the throttle.
As for overtaking, if I found myself in the middle of an overtake in an incorrect gear, then I'd much rather be in the auto where all I have to do is squeeze the throttle a little harder and the car will shift down far quicker than I ever could manually.
Soldato
Fair. Anyone with any sense, then
Still, I'm fine with saying that manuals are objectively worse. But I would still prefer the option to have one in a sports car at least. I understand that they're obsolete, but to compare them to starter handles, manual chokes, etc is missing the point I but I think.
Im with you there will be a point for manuals potentially, enthusiast cars, the problem is there are often not enough to make the market work.
Cars like MX5s and the like just dont sell that many compared to the mainstream ones. they can piggy back off the volume to get the parts they need, once the mainstream switches to autos then the economics may make those manuals problematic for the manufacturers. It still probably 10 years off as a minimum, so its proabably going to line up pretty well with the end of pure ICE cars in the UK (new ones)
More and more cars are heading to autos, its just inevitable, plus when you get more people learning to drive and taking their test in an auto wont you have more drivers who will not be able to drive a manual. Right now most people still take their test in a manual, but that number uis going up quickly. Interestingly pass rates in autos are much lower, the report I read said as historically most bad drivers struggling with learning to drive go to an auto thinking its going to turn their bad habits / problems into gold and they will pass easily, when it is just easier to drive and doesn't fix their observation, poor judgement etc etc
The starter handle was tongue in cheek, I remember the choke arguments being literally the same, pfff they will break, Im better with a manual than an auto can ever be, etc. smaller scale I know and yes a bit different but some people hate change, and come up with arguments based more on that than reality of understanding how these things will be influenced by the majority and what suits the majority best.
Exactly the same with ABS and TC control etc discussion that was had on here what a year ago, again the majority want them, they allow them to drive a fast car easier yep they numb the experience for the few who want to maximise their engagement