Poll: Azerbaijan Grand Prix 2018, Baku - Race 4/21

Rate the 2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix out of ten

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Vettel should have tried at the end of the next lap, maybe with DRS enabled. There were two or three laps remaining.

JunglistE said:
I'm just enjoying seeing Hamilton at top of the WDC. I expect after Spain it will be normal 2018 service and Seb leading by a couple of points/
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Barcelona is very unpredictable and Ferrari might have very serious competition even by more other teams. Not just Perez.
Every year, there is a different winner there.

2017 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2016 Max Verstappen Red Bull-TAG Heuer
2015 Nico Rosberg Mercedes
2014 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2013 Fernando Alonso Ferrari
2012 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault
2011 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault
2010 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault
2009 Jenson Button Brawn-Mercedes
2008 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari
2007 Felipe Massa Ferrari

Seb has only a single win there.

And yes, if Seb doesn't build up a championship points lead now, in the next races it will become increasingly difficult - by the risk of engine failures and by the risk to be caught with the pure speed and cars improvements.
 
4K8KW10 said:
Vettel should have tried at the end of the next lap, maybe with DRS enabled. There were two or three laps remaining.
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Bottas waited for what he saw to be the right time in Bahrain.. and waited... and he got lambasted for it.

The top drivers will always take any half-chance at the first opportunity, which is exactly what Vettel did. You can't criticise him for that.
 
Vettel is good when he undoubtedly has the best, outperforming by far the rest, car. When he leads without being interrupted by anyone or anything.
But when he needs to fight and he is in the back, he never proves to be as good.
He just failed and failed miserably, it could have cost him no points from this race at all.
 
The_Abyss said:
You persist in coming out with this stuff presented as fact when it just your opinion. Vettel had nearly no chance to win that race without a safety car?!

Bottas wasn't going to come out 6 seconds behind Vettel with a significantly faster tyre with say 20 laps to go, because he didn't! He stayed out far beyond that, and slowed to make sure he could pit with fewer than 20 laps to go once the safety car was deployed. He then came out on a tyre that was slower.

Both drivers were faster than Bottas until their pitstops. But whats makes you think that Bottas would be faster than them after his own change of tyres?
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First of all, I didn't present it as fact at all. LIterally the first part you quote says this

He almost certainly wouldn't have won without the safety car.
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which part of that is a statement of fact, was it the word almost... is that me claiming as a fact he wouldn't have won? Stop talking absolute nonsense in an attempt to attack me and my posting style before attacking what I said.

lap 37 Bottas did a 105.149 second lap, that was after Vettel and Hamilton pitted, that lap was faster than ANY lap that Vettel or Hamilton managed on fresh soft tires. To say they were catching is laughable. It was the fastest lap of the race, on lap 37, on the tires he qualified on while Vettel was on I think 6 lap old tires and Hamilton on 14 lap old tires on the same lap, Bottas was faster.

Now for some more facts, the gap on lap 31 after pit exit between Vettel and Bottas was 11.74 seconds, the gap before the pitstops under safet car was 13.85 seconds. You you insist I'm claiming things as facts, while you state both Hamilton and Vettel were faster AND that Bottas slowed, despite being faster throughout throughout the race, lap 19 was a 106 second lap, lap 20 a 107, lap 25 a 106, lap 30 a faster 105 and faster 105 laps in between then and his pitstop. So you're provably wrong.

The gap between Bottas and Hamilton after Hams pitstop was just under 18 seconds, the gap between them after Vettel pitted was
19.7 seconds, the gap before they all pitted was 20.139 seconds. Again, how is the gap increasing on fresher tires and lower lap times in his later laps showing that they were gaining on him or that Bottas was slowing... oh right, they aren't.

Vettel went from 9 seconds ahead of Bottas to 11 behind on the pitstop, so about 20 seconds for a pitstop here due to short entry. Bottas as previously mentioned was 13.2 seconds ahead of Vettel, so what do you think the gap would be when he pits.... about 6 seconds? Yes, I got the timing of the pitstop wrong, I thought there were more laps left for some reason, the safety car period seemed insanely long and felt like a lot more laps. Either way 11 laps to go on ultras backs up what I said even more, he was going to come out 6 seconds down on a tire that was so much faster than the supersofts the Renaults went from generally 0.5-1 second slower a lap than RBRs to blowing past them like it's nothing.... and Vettel was on tires that were older and even slower than the supersofts.

Hell, the soft tire even struggled to warm up on the outlap because the conditions were cold and they are a harder compound, the ultra would have warmed up quicker and got up to pace despite being a just flat out faster tire. So it's actually likely that Bottas would be 1-2 seconds faster on the outlap than Vettel's, so in all likelyhood he'd come out only 4-5 seconds behind Vettel.... with 11 laps to go.... on 1+ second a lap faster tires, then he'd easily get DRS and have a far faster tire through the next 3/4s or a lap to pull out of drs as well.

Yeah, I feel confident in saying that Bottas would almost certainly have won because Ferrari for no apparent reason went onto the softs despite being a horribly slow tire.


https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/29...-interactive-data-lap-charts-times-and-tyres/

When you attack someone for claiming things as facts, when they clearly used words that show it's an opinion, then make completely incorrect facts which are provably wrong you'll look like a fool so I'd suggest not doing that.

One last additions, Sainz did 15 laps on tires he qualified on and if you remember qualifying these weren't 3 lap runs like most places but several warm up laps and a couple of attempts for most guys. THe track had more rubber and tires always go longer on a lighter car with a track with more rubber on, qualifying and 15 laps in a heavy car combined, those ultras would have had no problem getting Vettel to the end of the race nor was there any obvious reason he had to pit that lap. He could both easily have gone to ultras that lap or waited 2-3 more laps and made it even safer on the ultra tires to the end. Ferrari blew the win the second they put him on the soft tire.
 
Spunkey said:
Bottas waited for what he saw to be the right time in Bahrain.. and waited... and he got lambasted for it.

The top drivers will always take any half-chance at the first opportunity, which is exactly what Vettel did. You can't criticise him for that.
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The difference was Bottas caught Vettel at the end in Bahrain and then didn't try the move, he didn't have cold tires, cold brakes and on a restart with what I can only assume is the biggest braking zone in F1 now. Trying a late braking move in such a place on a restart is very very different to diveboming from deep with hot brakes, hot tires, multiple laps to know exactly where the car is at and what it's capable of at that moment.

However from Vettel's description, he simply missed his braking point, it wasn't exactly a late move it was a complete mistake where he called it wrong.

I'm not sure he even particularly meant to divebomb but the closing speed from the strong slipstream put him close and add in missing braking point and that's what happened. I can understand going for it in that situation but I think he had a strong chance to beat him out in the final couple of laps if he played it safe.
 
Colour me surprised. Crazy theory... factual times from a site that publishes lap times for every driver on every lap of the race, hard to argue against facts with BS so just say you won't read it.
 
Interesting race. Gutted for Bottas - I think he out performed Lewis all weekend. But that's racing and it can be brutal. Fair play to Lewis - he knows he didn't earn it. But racing is racing and he has lost the top step a few times through no fault of his own, so it balances out.

The red bull incident - max is known to move more than he should in the braking zone but in this instance I think Danny simply tried to squeeze into a gap that wasn't there. Even if there was a gap, I'm not convinced he would have made the corner anyway. He was carrying way too much speed, maybe misjudged his braking point?

Re Vettel - I think it was now or never for him and fair play for having a go. Plenty of moments like that where he has made it stick but he made a mistake with his braking point and lost out because of it. Just highlights that even multiple world champs sometimes get it wrong.

Really starting to get annoyed with the tyres situation though. Just give us tyres that work without needing precise tiny operating windows. It's getting daft.
 
Onboard from Gasly and Magnussen on the collision on the second restart (the debris from which punctured Bottas's tyre): https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-f1-gasly-magnussen-dangerous-azerbaijan.html

That is absolutely appalling from Magnussen. How he only got 2 penalty points and a 10 second penalty is beyond me; that could have been an automatic race ban alone. Gasly nearly ended up sucking his own balls.
 
BuffetSlayer said:
Interesting race. Gutted for Bottas - I think he out performed Lewis all weekend. But that's racing and it can be brutal. Fair play to Lewis - he knows he didn't earn it. But racing is racing and he has lost the top step a few times through no fault of his own, so it balances out.
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I mean, other than the lock up Hamilton out qualified him and pulled an 8 second lead over Bottas. Bottas was slower than Ham all weekend, it's just that the soft tire didn't work at all. Hamilton locking up early and Kimi being trashed by Ocon meant both had to go softs early really, though in hindsight two stopping on ultras would have worked much better for them. Vettel/Ferrari decision I just don't get. RBR knew the soft tire was trash and went to the ultras, as said Ferrari basically threw away the win with their decision to put him on the soft. After over 30 laps of the race a new set of the almost always a harder compound would anywhere else be a good 2+ seconds faster a lap yet here the softs were slower than even very old supersofts.

They got Vettel to a point he could definitely go with the ultras and certainly close enough he could risk a few more laps to make an ultra stint easy and instead they put him on what was a known by now terrible tire.

Bottas has been far improved this year and better than Ham in China, but if the softs turned out to be a faster tire Bottas wouldn't have pitted much longer after Hamilton while also coming out behind.

Still in the position he found himself he had a long time looking like winning, taking a lead in the championship and with the safety car reducing the race to a few laps at the end he had a decent chance to hold the rest off so it would be a gutting loss.
 
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