Soldato
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Interesting any good links on it?
Poll: Azerbaijan Grand Prix 2022, Baku - Race 8
- Thread starter chrismscotland
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The wind tunnel rules **** on Mercedes in the first place for winning the Constructors last year (despite Max won the championship). That rule was specifically introduced to disadvantage the winning teams.
Likewise the rake changes in 2020/2021 were specifically intended to slow down the Mercedes car.
So rule changes to help other teams to the detriment of another is hardly a new concept.
Mercedes absolutely cannot be trundling around in P9/P10 like they were at the beginning of the season, they need to be mixing it around at the front for the benefit of the sport. Mercedes as a manufacturer would swiftly exit the Formula (and probably take their engines with them) if they were constantly in the midfield.
[Edit] Let's not forget the Mercedes DAS system that they arrived with in 2020 was banned too, despite being legal. Mercedes were **** on in that situation too, despite "getting it right in the first place".
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Soldato
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Mercedes DAS system was not banned it was allowed and they were the only team with it for an entire season. Obviously for the following season they either leave the rules and every team would have the exact same system whilst increasing the costs for all teams or they just get rid of it altogether. Both would be fair but it's much better for all that they got rid of it.
Well not quite, Mercedes had already invested the time and money into developing the DAS system. It was better for the *other 9 teams* that the rules were changed to ban it, but Mercedes definitely didn't benefit from the rule change and it certainly wasn't "fair".
The point I'm making here is that the FIA have repeatedly shown they are willing to help the other teams to catch up even if one of the top teams were doing it better / first so it wouldn't be new ground if they allowed some dispensation to the teams on the grounds of safety, even if Red Bull can't benefit from it because they've already solved their bouncing issues.
I think due to the fact we are now at the end of the era of ICE, and the fact that F1 wants to be carbon neutral (LOL) then they should move back to a fixed design car for all teams, with only the driver and strategy being the differences.
Its unlikely anything in F1 will make it into a production car anymore, and instead of wasting billions $'s a year on car development and engine supply etc. Just stick with a fixed car, no arguments as to what is legal, everyone has the same chance of parts or power unit failure, and they could license the deal ever 2/3 years to different manufacturers.
If anything that IMO would make F1 exciting again, with teams and drivers being the SPORT!
Its unlikely anything in F1 will make it into a production car anymore, and instead of wasting billions $'s a year on car development and engine supply etc. Just stick with a fixed car, no arguments as to what is legal, everyone has the same chance of parts or power unit failure, and they could license the deal ever 2/3 years to different manufacturers.
If anything that IMO would make F1 exciting again, with teams and drivers being the SPORT!
Soldato
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Yes but I think there is a massive difference in changing rules for the following season (DAS etc) and changing rules during a season and primarily just for one team.
Soldato
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DAS was banned from these cars before Mercedes even went to the FIA for clarification. They chose to introduce it in 2020 as that was the last time it was expected to be allowed for use (the new gen hadn't been delayed until 2022 when they were designing the W11), so unlikely to be copied.
No one realised the delay to the season would go on so long, but it soon became clear that the next cars wouldn't be ready for 2021 (as when factories weren't closed, they were turned into producing masks, face protection and tools for emergency care - in some cases anyway). At that stage it looked like the 2020 cars would carry over for 2021 and 2022 with the new gen coming in for 2023 (obviously that didn't happen in the end), so other teams would be unable to make the changes necessary (as they required costly chassis redesigns and testing) unless they did them in 2020 under an impending global recession, when at least two teams were already up a creek (Williams, and unbeknown to us at the time, McLaren) and faced with being forced to go without it for 2020, 2021 and 2022.
The better example to use would be the floor changes for introduced for 2021, though I don't think anyone speculated that would hinder Mercedes and Aston Martin until testing began.
I doubt if the rules are going to be changed mid-season, although Mercedes are attempting to force a change by setting up their car(s) knowing that they are creating issues for their drivers physical health...
Soldato
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That's not going to happen anytime soon. You might find Indycar or F2 more to your liking.
While hybrids (in terms of harvesting energy) I can't ever see being of benefit to your average family car, F1 manufacturers do have road cars with some of the technology. Indeed six of the teams have road cars with hybrid technology - not as advanced as F1 of course, but it's still relevant.
F1 is also intended to be used for refining biofuels, so while road cars actually beat them to limited use, biofuels will play a major role in the 2025 PU regulations, with manufacturers already working behind the scenes to improve them.
Nope, I'd just prefer F1 to stop with the stupid rules and nonsense tbh. It spoils the actual SPORT, if it is going to be a competition between cars vendors then get rid of the cost cap and let them go ham.
But in the end they are going to be irrelevant long term.
Soldato
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True, but it's a heck of a lot better on relying pumping oil out of the ground, especially with the ever-increasing prices. Clearly the ideal alternative (hydrogen) isn't ready for mainstream yet, so unless it is viable, we're better off improving biofuels.
Idd, just saying that they don't need F1 to do it though really, there is enough cash swilling around the oil producers to do it on their own and test it it 'real' cars not an F1 car with a fuel profile requirement of that only a supercar would come near to matching.
Why do you think that? Synthetic fuels are very likely to have a role indefinitely. Not on road going cars, but in a lot of industrial and agricultural contexts synthetic fuels are likely to have an important role.
I believe the plan is for 100% synthetic fuels for the new regulations in 2025 which is why Porsche are so interested.
It's interesting though from an F1 point-of-view, as even if they went fully synthetic, due to wanting to be carbon neutral/negative, all of that fuel would need to be produced with 100% renewable electricity, which just isn't going to be possible unless it is made in a country like Norway or Iceland, so then you need to ship the Biomass to those locations, again with totally clean ships/energy, not possible for a good while yet.
Large plant machinery, and things like farming equipment is moving towards BEV, not synthetic fuels. Distribution of fuel is going to become much more expensive as it drops regardless of the source, as is the storage. You should look at the zero emissions building sites in Norway, where all the equipment is battery operated and incredibly quiet in operation.
It won't be unless they get rid of DRS. What's the point in attempting a 50/50 overtake when you can trundle behind them, get the DRS and pass them on the straight. This will be a season of DRS overtakes, they should have binned it when they decided they wanted cars to be able to follow more closely this year.
And an engine freeze, right?
Stop making out like it's only Mercedes. This is a Ferrari; https://www.instagram.com/p/CeqpA4JAOD4/ Does that look healthy to you?
Ricciardo and Sainz were pretty vocal about the porpoising after this race, most drivers have been too, but the problem is it seems to vary a fair amount depending on the car setup, and track. Sidenote, knowing RB I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing something fairly illegal to counteract the porpoising
EDIT: According to Karun Chandok "Pretty much every driver in this paddock is unanimous in terms of saying that something has to be done about these rules and the bouncing" https://youtu.be/-VRN2x8bTrg?t=50
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Ricciardo and Sainz were pretty vocal about the porpoising after this race, most drivers have been too, but the problem is it seems to vary a fair amount depending on the car setup, and track. Sidenote, knowing RB I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing something fairly illegal to counteract the porpoising
EDIT: According to Karun Chandok "Pretty much every driver in this paddock is unanimous in terms of saying that something has to be done about these rules and the bouncing" https://youtu.be/-VRN2x8bTrg?t=50
He only did about 5 laps, he's got nothing to complain about
Something has to be done but hard to say what's the best course of action, as I said earlier giving each team extra few hours in wind tunnel, simulators and even on track testing outside of budget cap is probably a good start. We've had 8 races now so they all should have a few ideas by now to test. Then it's up to each team to use that time as they see fit.
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