05 the Ferrari and 06 it went to the wire and the car was poor at the start of the year.
I started watching F1 in 94 so i am glad i caught the best of his career
Bahrain GP 2009 - Race 4/17
- Thread starter stockhausen
- Start date
05 the Ferrari and 06 it went to the wire and the car was poor at the start of the year.
I started watching F1 in 94 so i am glad i caught the best of his career
Is that why in some races we saw drivers like Massa move away from Hamilton, almost effortlessly? The best example of this was in the last race of the 2008 where the Ferrari was in a class of its own.
He is this year. Last year he wasnt.
Why? BrawnGP have had the best race car, from the word go, allowing Button to open up a points advantage, from the word...go.
Last year, Hamilton didnt have the best car.
Erm. MS moved to Ferrari, when Ferrari hadnt won a title for 15 years (or thereabouts). Button on the other hand has been in a crap car, during which time he drove crap. He is now in the best car and is driving better than his team-mate and many other drivers.
The achievement of winning a title in the best car on the field? Its been done many times before.
There will be times this year it happens to button as well. It already has in the wet.
It doesn't matter when you near last. DC could beat Hakkinen when it wasn't for the title. As you have showed with your karting posts it's when you expected to win then the pressure is the greatest. Thats what defines the best drivers, those that can when they have the equipment.
A car that you yourself expected to be last or there abouts. A car built from a team in ruins. A car Jenson helped develope. He's spent years there putting in the groundwork with a poor team. Having the best car from day one has nothign to do with it. Unless you can remember another time this has been done in the last 30 years where a team has gone from back to front.
Ferrari where the 3rd best team at the time, that doesn't compare with how far from the back Brawn have come. Button drove crap last year and that's it. In previous years he's always done better. Perhaps last year the car didn't suit him.
The best car just about always wins. The achievement is in from how far back they have turned it around. No one to my memory has ever done that before.
For the record I doubt they will win the title anyway. They don't have the money to keep up a season long battle to maintain developement and work on next years car, unless they get some money fast.
Soldato
Last two years Button could not get heat into the Hondas tyres as the chassis just wasn't up to scratch, hence why they abandoned last season in favour of this one. Despite the problems over winter, it certainly has paid off. Imagine where thye may be if they didn't have the main income back out? If the Honda engine was up to scratch they could have been much stronger overall with proper testing.
Button has always been a class driver. He has had some great results with BAR and was fighting Alonso whilst showing a similar class. The difference is Alonso had the better car then and an enven better car the year after. The potential has always been there but he's never quite had the car/reliability. He certainly slumped last season and probably even wrote himself off but he has trained very hard over winter and he has the right personality and skills to win the championship. If he takes it, it will be about time and very deserved.
Anyone remember him racing whilst holding is visor down on the straights and still pulled in a good result? Most people would go in the pits and complain about it rather than doing the best with what they have. He's not some young whining hotshot who needs spoon feeding which is what I like about him.
[/fanboy]
Button has always been a class driver. He has had some great results with BAR and was fighting Alonso whilst showing a similar class. The difference is Alonso had the better car then and an enven better car the year after. The potential has always been there but he's never quite had the car/reliability. He certainly slumped last season and probably even wrote himself off but he has trained very hard over winter and he has the right personality and skills to win the championship. If he takes it, it will be about time and very deserved.
Anyone remember him racing whilst holding is visor down on the straights and still pulled in a good result? Most people would go in the pits and complain about it rather than doing the best with what they have. He's not some young whining hotshot who needs spoon feeding which is what I like about him.
[/fanboy]
Soldato
Ive supported Button since his initial arrival at Williams - and even with the contractual mistakes along the way, Im really glad he is finally in a decent car to show his talents.
Bahrain was probably the 1st race which was pretty straight forward, and considering the Brawn hadnt been tested at all in any rain let alone the deluge of China, 3 wins and a 3rd place is pretty outstanding - and dont forget the Merc's revs where turned down because of the heat in Bahrain they have done astoundingly well.
Im sure Brawn / Button and the team would have bitten anyone's hand off before the beginning of the season for the results gained.
Rubens is a great guy but really only an average driver (why do you think Shumi accepted him as a team mate for so long ......because he wasnt any threat) - Jenson is proving how good a driver he is when given decent equipment.
Bahrain was probably the 1st race which was pretty straight forward, and considering the Brawn hadnt been tested at all in any rain let alone the deluge of China, 3 wins and a 3rd place is pretty outstanding - and dont forget the Merc's revs where turned down because of the heat in Bahrain they have done astoundingly well.
Im sure Brawn / Button and the team would have bitten anyone's hand off before the beginning of the season for the results gained.
Rubens is a great guy but really only an average driver (why do you think Shumi accepted him as a team mate for so long ......because he wasnt any threat) - Jenson is proving how good a driver he is when given decent equipment.
Man of Honour
I agree that Rubens is not right up there with the best, however I do remember a fair few races where he wasn't ALLOWED to be a threat, and also where he had to yield to MS, even some races where he overtook MS around the track and then suddenly had a pit stop that was 3 seconds longer than it should have been etc!
Soldato
There were also days when he was untouchable anyway - Silverstone '03, the last few laps of Hockenheim '00, Monza and China '04....
And I've never heard him complain or get into fights with his team mate, regardless of who they were and what preferential treatment they got.
I was never a Jenson fan in the early days, in fact ITV's fawning over him put me off. Despite great results in the williams. It was how he conducted himself with team mates that really earnt my respect. He just got on with the job.
They're saving it up to utterly spank McLaren at this hearing....
Hope I'm wrong.
In reality what choice to do they have as the team in on probabtion anyway after the other 'mclaren gate'. They pretty much set a penalty when they gave honda a two race ban.
Personally I can see them letting them race but no constructor points, which makes the Bar/Honda penalty seem harsh. I really don't see them excluding Kova as he did nothing wrong.
I see a contructor ban with the warning any further incidents meaning instant DSQ.
That may be true - but compared to the number the car was capable of producing a 1-2 and the number of times it actually happened.....even if you cant overtake at least get as close to your team mate as you possibly can
Rubens just didnt do it frequently enough imo however nice a guy he is
Soldato
They're saving it up to utterly spank McLaren at this hearing....
Hope I'm wrong.
mclaren really need to learn not to get caught doing this bad stuff. Almost every team in the past has lied or cheated at somepoint, but rarely have thet got caught.
I hope you are wrong too but i seriously think they are going to Max Mosley's house after the court hearing
Soldato
24 one-twos in 104 races together. It doesn't sound like a lot, but given that the figures include the write-off that was the '05 season (23 in 85 if we remove that year) and also note that two of those years were very competitive between Ferrari and McLaren (and Renault later) so 4 or more cars were going for those positions....
By comparison, take a look at the record McLaren currently have with Hamilton and Kovy. 21.2% of races for Ferrari during the whole of the Schumacher-Barichello period ended in a one-two (jumps to a shade over 27% without 2005!). So far, the LH-HK partnership is sat at bog-all IIRC, even with them having the best car last year for the balance of the season
A decent view on Button on the BBC, a nice read imo....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8022027.stm
A small piece of it..
His boss Ross Brawn - the man who guided Michael Schumacher to seven world championships - was ready with the superlatives afterwards.
"Even with the car we had last year I saw little flashes of something exceptional from him and the guys on the team that had been here a few years were always telling me he was a bit special," said Brawn. "I just had not been privileged to see it on a regular basis.
"But now with a good car he is able to deliver and I think that first proper win from the front in Australia [Button won in Hungary 2006 but in an incident-packed race from the middle of the grid] has given him a confidence that has brought an extra dimension.
"His speed is quite exceptional, yet you would never know it watching him because he's so incredibly smooth."
Button's smooth style means he is deceptively fast in the car
Earlier this year, Button's team-mate Rubens Barrichello - the man who partnered Schumacher for six years at Ferrari - told Brazilian reporters that judging from what he was seeing this year, Button was as talented and skilled as Schumacher, only not as consistent.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8022027.stm
A small piece of it..
His boss Ross Brawn - the man who guided Michael Schumacher to seven world championships - was ready with the superlatives afterwards.
"Even with the car we had last year I saw little flashes of something exceptional from him and the guys on the team that had been here a few years were always telling me he was a bit special," said Brawn. "I just had not been privileged to see it on a regular basis.
"But now with a good car he is able to deliver and I think that first proper win from the front in Australia [Button won in Hungary 2006 but in an incident-packed race from the middle of the grid] has given him a confidence that has brought an extra dimension.
"His speed is quite exceptional, yet you would never know it watching him because he's so incredibly smooth."
Button's smooth style means he is deceptively fast in the car
Earlier this year, Button's team-mate Rubens Barrichello - the man who partnered Schumacher for six years at Ferrari - told Brazilian reporters that judging from what he was seeing this year, Button was as talented and skilled as Schumacher, only not as consistent.
24 one-twos in 104 races together. It doesn't sound like a lot, but given that the figures include the write-off that was the '05 season (23 in 85 if we remove that year) and also note that two of those years were very competitive between Ferrari and McLaren (and Renault later) so 4 or more cars were going for those positions....
By comparison, take a look at the record McLaren currently have with Hamilton and Kovy. 21.2% of races for Ferrari during the whole of the Schumacher-Barichello period ended in a one-two (jumps to a shade over 27% without 2005!). So far, the LH-HK partnership is sat at bog-all IIRC, even with them having the best car last year for the balance of the season
I still think 25% success rate is pretty poor - considering for the most part they only had to beat one car /one team at best
hey why not include all the races where MS was position x, why wasnt RB x+1 - whether that was 1st, 2nd or whereever - even this year its proving that Rubens just cant compete at the highest level, maybe its his delelopement skills that gets him the new contracts
Even so far, RB has come in twice right behind Jenson - but the time difference is quite considerable each time, its not like he is just waiting for JB to make an error to claim the place/ win
that probation was for 08 which mclaren got through more then cleanly in fact they were damaged more by lying stewards...
