Bahrain GP 2009 - Race 4/17

If Massa is unlucky enough, he will have to partner Alonso, which wont be easy as Alonso will aim to dominate his team-mate and expect preferential treatment (which Ferrari will certainly give).

For this year though, I think Ferrari should write it off and test the car during races to produce a good 2010 car.

The Ferrari car is very very slow and doesnt seem to be improving in the same way that the McLaren car is.

One thing of note is the BMWs. I dont think much has been mentioned about them, but they pretty much finished last. They have one of the highest budgets in F1 and completed the most testing miles (pre-season) and for them to have both cars finish at the back is shocking, to say the least.
 
sunama said:
One thing of note is the BMWs. I dont think much has been mentioned about them, but they pretty much finished last. They have one of the highest budgets in F1 and completed the most testing miles (pre-season) and for them to have both cars finish at the back is shocking, to say the least.
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I think Legard mentioned it. Said BMW were going backwards. Have relied too much on their 2009 car with KERS and it isn't working for them as KERS is for McLaren.
 
MarcLister said:
Have relied too much on their 2009 car with KERS and it isn't working for them as KERS is for McLaren.
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It probably comes down to the BMW being a fundamentally half-decent car ruined by the compromises necessary for KERS, and the McLaren being a fundamentally not-so-good car being elevated by it in a sort-of "**** or bust" manner. Certainly, KERS helped Hamilton's meteoric opening lap in Bahrain but he went nowhere from there except backwards. Really, he's making it go far faster than it deserves to even with the work they've done to it since the start of the season. The Brawns are quicker, the Red Bulls are quicker, the Toyotas are now probably quicker, the Williams cars are reasonably fast.....the McLaren doesn't really have much right to be fighting for 4th or 5th place much less a podium! Shows just how much of a talent Lewis is really.

Shame he's with such an unlikeable team. Now that the worst of the fawning has died down (and also now he's won a title and the praise can be justified somewhat) I'm starting to like him again. I just can't bring myself to support him fully while he drives for that bunch of incompetents!
 
JRS said:
McLaren doesn't really have much right to be fighting for 4th or 5th place much less a podium!
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Looks nice though, always worth a couple of tenths :D

I was surprised Button reeled him in on the pit straight, essentially the same engine package and no KERS yet Button still did him under braking. I expect the McLaren lacks braking stability, robbing Hamilton of confidence.
 
JRS said:
It probably comes down to the BMW being a fundamentally half-decent car ruined by the compromises necessary for KERS, and the McLaren being a fundamentally not-so-good car being elevated by it in a sort-of "**** or bust" manner. Certainly, KERS helped Hamilton's meteoric opening lap in Bahrain but he went nowhere from there except backwards. Really, he's making it go far faster than it deserves to even with the work they've done to it since the start of the season. The Brawns are quicker, the Red Bulls are quicker, the Toyotas are now probably quicker, the Williams cars are reasonably fast.....the McLaren doesn't really have much right to be fighting for 4th or 5th place much less a podium! Shows just how much of a talent Lewis is really.
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Yes. I think Heikki is showing that the car really is quite undriveable.

Got to say I'm loving F1 2009 so far. Most open season for ages. No Ferraris or McLarens challenging for the first four race wins?! :eek:

Lopéz said:
Looks nice though, always worth a couple of tenths :D
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Yup. Nicest nose in F1 2009 I reckon. Although I think Red Bull car is the best looking overall. :cool:
 
JRS said:
Certainly, KERS helped Hamilton's meteoric opening lap in Bahrain but he went nowhere from there except backwards. Really, he's making it go far faster than it deserves to even with the work they've done to it since the start of the season.
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Hamilton
Hamilton is from a generation of Playstation gamers. He has very fast reactions and is good at pressing buttons. Even in his spare time apparently, he plays online console games.

When I first saw the new steering wheels and the sheer amount of buttons on them, I thought that this would play into the hands of drivers who have the ability to press lots of buttons (ie. Hamilton). I believe that this is why you saw him able to use KERS at the correct moments during that opening lap, but also able to keep the car on the road and place the car in the correct positions during the lap. Unfortunately you saw, the moment he was out of KERS power, he got overtaken as he couldnt do anything else.

McLaren
At first I thought it would be impossible for McLaren to catch up with the frontrunners, but after Bahrain's showing, I'm actually beginning to believe that they can do it and perhaps go for a win, towards the end of the season.

BrawnGP
I still believe that BrawnGP have a decent advantage and will continue to hold that advantage for a few races at least. Their qualifying pace isn't as good as their race pace though.

RedBull
RedBull should soon have an updated diffuser, which should be very interesting when this happens as their car is already very very fast.

Alonso
Alonso doesnt quite seem to be in top form...yet. But expect him to improve as the season progresses. He is already outperforming his team-mate by a considerable margin, but I still feel there is more to come.
 
MarcLister said:
Yes. I think Heikki is showing that the car really is quite undriveable.

Got to say I'm loving F1 2009 so far. Most open season for ages. No Ferraris or McLarens challenging for the first four race wins?! :eek:
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Im not loving it :p

To be honest though, it has been a great start. Its made the season the most intresting one for years.

Are there any developments from Ferrari due for the next race?
 
sunama said:
BrawnGP
I still believe that BrawnGP have a decent advantage and will continue to hold that advantage for a few races at least. Their qualifying pace isn't as good as their race pace though..
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How can the Brawn have a faster race pace than the Red Bull. The Red Bull has twice out qualified Jenson and the last time they had more fuel, race level fuel.

I just think Jenson has been kinder on the tyres than the red bull or his team mate.

That said a load of new parts are coming for lots of teams in spain so I guess we will know after quallies.

Australia is often spoke of as an odd track where a perfomance advantage doesn't carry on for the rest of the tracks. I think thats the case with Brawn. That huge advantage there has all but dissapeared.

I'm also not sure mclaren have made that great strides, a few of the others seem to have dropped off.

When you look at the cars that where ahead of Hamilton in Australia qualifying, like Kubica in 4th, Heidfeld in 11th, Rosbergs Williams 5th and Alonso, they all seem to be suffering of late and really dropped off.

I think Mclaren have made a few gains but not a massive amount.
 
I think McLaren have been helped a lot by other teams incompetence... looking in the direction of Renault, BMW and Ferrari here.

McLaren seems to, amazingly, held the team together and have not really made any major mistakes (not counting the monumental fubar that occured in the Australian stewards room).

IMO the Red Bull is the prettiest car. From the rear it just looks awesome. It looks so flat... like a manta ray or something. Like it. Also like the Brawn which has nice sidepods but I think that's just the white which makes them stand out.
 
frakker said:
The Brawn's balance is better on a heavy fuel load, which is why it is good over longer distances rather than on low Q1, Q2 fuel amounts.
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AcidHell2 said:
Because qauli and race pace are different. Even if they are carrying race fuel.
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Regardless on race fuel the Red Bull is still quicker. As Q3 proves. Not only that it was quicker by quite a margin compared to the Brawn.

It was quicker than Rubens Brawn as well.

Clearly Jenson is the new messiah ;)
 
dannyjo22 said:
Regardless on race fuel the Red Bull is still quicker. As Q3 proves. Not only that it was quicker by quite a margin compared to the Brawn.
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How does qauli have anything to do with race pace? Race pace has much more to do with tire ware. Putting one stunning lap in on fresh tires. Is not the same as pumping 20 consistent laps in.
Oh and I'm not saying they are faster. But just because they are faster in qauli , does not mean they have the faster race car.
 
You have to remember, the RBR has had a few updates since Aus .. the Brawn is EXACTLY the same car, not a single "new" bit on it really - whatever is coming to Spain should be fairly epic if it gives them 0.3-0.6sec
 
dannyjo22 said:
Regardless on race fuel the Red Bull is still quicker. As Q3 proves. Not only that it was quicker by quite a margin compared to the Brawn.

It was quicker than Rubens Brawn as well.

Clearly Jenson is the new messiah ;)
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It was quicker over the space of one lap. During a whole race, it isn't. Otherwise it would have won 4 races.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Regardless on race fuel the Red Bull is still quicker. As Q3 proves. Not only that it was quicker by quite a margin compared to the Brawn.

It was quicker than Rubens Brawn as well.

Clearly Jenson is the new messiah ;)
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As others have said, the race pace (heavy fuel loads and consistent pace over several laps) of the BrawnGP is arguably the best in F1 right now.

When it comes to qualifying, the Toyotas are pretty good, as is the RedBull. Though one could argue that Vettel did something special in Bahrain qualifying - something that he was unable to repeat again and again during the race.

If you want the fastest qualifier, then you look towards Trulli, but if you want to look to race favourites, then you have to look at Button in a BrawnGP (a smooth driver, who isnt terribly quick, but gives you relatively fast, safe laps in the most predictable car on the grid).

Of course, in the wet, the RedBull cars were far and away the best package.

Oh and no: Button IS NOT the new Messiah. If he wins the title this year, it will probably be his only one. Hamilton on the other hand could well go on to win 5+ World titles in his career as he is obviously something very very special.
 
sunama said:
Oh and no: Button IS NOT the new Messiah. If he wins the title this year, it will probably be his only one. Hamilton on the other hand could well go on to win 5+ World titles in his career as he is obviously something very very special.
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So Hamilton wins a title in the best car on the grid and he is something special, but if Button does the same thing he isn't:confused:
 
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