Bahrain Grand Prix 2010, Sakhir - Race 1/19

[Owenb]

KERS would work even if all teams used it. Its all about letting the driver use the skill required to press that button at precisely the right time.

As Fisichella showed last year, the KERS system is not easy to use and requires a high level of skill to be used effectively. Hamilton was by far and away the best at using it.

Did you really say that? You really think that hamilton was 'by far and away the best' at pressing a button?

There seems to be some trouble brewing with starter holes in the diffuser. McLaren and Merc have been named as two of the teams that might have to change their diffuser. There was talk of Ferrari introducing a huge hole in their diffuser but I am not sure if it was related to the starter hole.

 

[Glaucus]

How about, you can either have KERS (with more power), a small turbo, or a larger engine?

Also, we need engines that are more powerful than they need to be, instead of restricting them, so that everyone is always revving to the edge to even get close to someone.

Bring in more powerful engines, and you are putting more skill on the drivers to use that power...

They should be able to have what ever size engine they want with what ever kers they can design and any induction they feel is good. Just limit the fuel.

Here you have 150kilos of fuel (or what ever it is) now use it in which ever way you feel fit. In 2012 you'll have 135kilos (10% reduction) and in 2014 you'll have 121 kilos(10% reduction) . And so on.
Real research which companies will want to invest in and that filters down. That is why i think we have seen such a decline in manufactures. They get no benefit other than advertising. Where pre 1994 they used it as research project, from engines to electronics.

Kers should only have one restriction. Starts the parade lap with no charge (be it electrical, kinetic or anything else). Again this would allow proper useful research which will filter to other industries.

If they all had it within a few races the computers would find the best place to apply it when attacking and defending.

But that's only because kers is so restricted and pointless developing. BHP boost limited, charge limited, time used limited.

If that was removed. You would have different teams using smaller BHP for longer, or huge BHP for a short time. You would also have how much charge can you get. The more charging the unit does the more it will unbalance the car. Lots of tasty variables with lots of real world benefits for the research.

For all the common parts in f1 they seem to want to introduce Id be much happier with a common body/wing shape and then let them do whatever they wanted with the engine with fewer engine restrictions.

Totally agree, aero is hugely expensive with tiny improvements with minimal real world use for the research.

 

[Mr Jack]

Did you really say that? You really think that hamilton was 'by far and away the best' at pressing a button?

You really think KERS use boils down to "pressing a button"? Gosh, does controlling their speed boil down to "pressing a pedal" too? All these F1 drivers are overrated, I can press a pedal too!

 

[Glaucus]

Did you really say that? You really think that hamilton was 'by far and away the best' at pressing a button?
.

It really isn't that easy. especially when they can change the recovery rate, throughout the lap. So on harder corners they don't unbalance the car and have to slow down to much.

 

[dannyjo22]

Hamilton was the best at it but then you have to consider the competition.

Ferrari Kers was poo when it didn't break.
BMW more poo.
Renault poo.

About the only car that had reasonable results was the Macca.

So that brings the choice down to Kova or Hamilton.

Any of the drivers could potentially have been better than hamilton with Kers useage if they had a useable system.

A part of me is still gutted Macca didn't turn up with a Kers system on the 2010 car and point and laugh at the gentlemens agreement.

 

[Dutch Guy]

Why were there so few tyre changes?
They were 6 seconds off the qualifying pace at the end of the race, surely losing 23 seconds for a tyre change could be gained back with new tyres?

 

[Goksly]

They were probably conserving fuel / engine as well... plus in traffic etc.

 

[sunama]

Hamilton was the best at using it because there system was far and away a better system than Ferraris. If they all had it within a few races the computers would find the best place to apply it when attacking and defending.

The KERS button is operated by a human. Not a computer. It takes skill to press it at exactly the right time, during the heat of battle.

In 2009/10, the F1 driver has A LOT of buttons to press during the course of a single lap. This is where, he is able to make the difference. Hamilton is very good at multitasking while in the car and is the reason why he was so level headed last year, while using the KERS button.

In summary, I disagree that after a few races, all drivers would be upto speed. Fisichella was the only driver last year who switched from non KERS to KERS and he struggled, even after a few races.

 

[sunama]

Did you really say that? You really think that hamilton was 'by far and away the best' at pressing a button?

Just as you need skill to press the throttle or the brake, or change gears or change the brake bias, or change wing settings, you also need skill to press the KERS button at the right time.

On its own KERS is easy to use, but when the driver has so many other things to think about KERS becomes difficult.

Hamilton showed last year that different drivers get different results from their KERS device. Heikki had the same device, yet all he could ever use it for was defending his position and not attacking.

 

[sunama]

Why were there so few tyre changes?
They were 6 seconds off the qualifying pace at the end of the race, surely losing 23 seconds for a tyre change could be gained back with new tyres?

Thats what I'm thinking too, though there must be a good explanation for this, otherwise some of the midfield cars yesterday would taken the risk and gone on a 2 stop race strategy.

 

[Glaucus]

It isn't just the pit stop time you lose which is a lot. You will drop down the grid a lot and so have yo overtake 6 or so cars.

 

[mmj_uk]

Why were there so few tyre changes?
They were 6 seconds off the qualifying pace at the end of the race, surely losing 23 seconds for a tyre change could be gained back with new tyres?

I would guess it's too risky due to loss of track position and traffic.

 

[Owenb]

The KERS button is operated by a human. Not a computer. It takes skill to press it at exactly the right time, during the heat of battle.

In 2009/10, the F1 driver has A LOT of buttons to press during the course of a single lap. This is where, he is able to make the difference. Hamilton is very good at multitasking while in the car and is the reason why he was so level headed last year, while using the KERS button.

In summary, I disagree that after a few races, all drivers would be upto speed. Fisichella was the only driver last year who switched from non KERS to KERS and he struggled, even after a few races.

Fisi was miles off the pace and it had nothing to do with pressing the KERS button! The difference between pressing the KERS button and NOT pressing the button at ALL was about 1/2 a second. The difference between pressing the button at the right/wrong time is probably no more than 1s over the whole race.

How can ye compare the brake/throttle to an on/off button? That's like saying that pressing X on the PS3 is the same as Hamilton controlling 850BHP with his right foot.

 

[robbiemc]

Why were there so few tyre changes?
They were 6 seconds off the qualifying pace at the end of the race, surely losing 23 seconds for a tyre change could be gained back with new tyres?

I'm guessing no one wanted to risk overtaking Schumacher - he's got form for that.

 

[Dutch Guy]

I'm guessing no one wanted to risk overtaking Schumacher - he's got form for that.

I can understand that, but it looked like new tyres made the car really seconds a lap faster, more than enough to succeed in overtaking I would have thought.

 

[alexthecheese]

It appeared they were good for a few laps, then were just as bad as everyone else's who hadn't changed.

 

[robbiemc]

I can understand that, but it looked like new tyres made the car really seconds a lap faster, more than enough to succeed in overtaking I would have thought.

I'm being partially flippant of course. But Schmi does have the ability to make his car three times wider than it is when he sees someone attempting to overtake, and you'd need more than a couple of seconds a lap buffer to do that safely

 

[Dutch Guy]

It appeared they were good for a few laps, then were just as bad as everyone else's who hadn't changed.

That could be it, well spotted, that would also mean that changing tyres does not pay off as they will not gain 23 seconds back in the few laps.

 

[Demon]

Now that there seems there might be some difference between qually pace and race pace, what caused the procession was the inevitable aero, something that any amount of small rule changing doesn't seem to have any effect, As soon as you get within 3/4 of a second of the car in front, even if you are in a car that is 1 second quicker in qualifying, you stand no chance of getting by...

I know this sounds impractical, but as with last year, I'd like to see the FIA set specific aero profiles/limits and leave it up to the teams to come up with whatever aero they want as long as it doesn't exceed the limits..

Obviously you'd need to give the teams a speed to downforce profile, that just indicates the total downforce (a sum of all downforce on all 4 wheels), this profile can be carefully set each year to ensure cars that have a mechanical grip advantage or setup advantage are able to overtake.

They'd also need to put some limit on the amount of spoilt air generated by the car to augment this.

The teams are free to then decide how the want the downforce to act, how much front and rear etc..

Then to promote innovation, they could allow more freedom with suspension systems or engines or something to give enough scope for real differences to appear.

I don't see measuring downforce as complicated, put a car in the wind tunnel, on a set of corner scales, and sum up the weight with air against the cars static weight, and make sure it never exceeds the profile at any given speed. No changes can therefore be made to the aero without providing FIA confirmation from a quick wind tunnel re-test.

How you measure spoiled air, I've no idea on that, but surely it can be done?

All I want to see is that when a car is significantly quicker in free air that it has a chance of overtaking the car in front..

We have plenty of vatiables with fuel consumption/weight and handling changes as the fuel/tyres burn up..

Probably nonsense, but I see no major downsides..

 

[Dutch Guy]

All I want to see is that when a car is significantly quicker in free air that it has a chance of overtaking the car in front..

- Ban diffusers
- Reduce spoilers/fins
- Double the width of the tyres instead of making them smaller
- Increase engine power (so that the limiting factor is drivers guts)
- Super sticky tires instead of todays hard crap, 5-stopping should be possible