Bahrain Grand Prix 2012, Sakhir - Race 4/20

[arknor]

so he suffered no major drop off in the tyres, maybe he should have went faster...if he is being held back so much then why did they not do a 4 stop?

And why did he not complain about it in China? Nico is getting to him maybe...

because an extra stop is even worse?
you dont find it odd that schumacher , hamiltin , vettel and raikkonen all set there fastest laptime directly after the outlap for their last stops?
is it not a sign they were just pacing themselfs because the tyres just dont let you race.

it just seems like everyone is scared to try and better their position because if they do try to race they know what happened to kimi in china.

we need tyres that make it worth pushing and hunting people down in the race not tyres that make people think if they do push the tyres are going to go off and there race is ruined

 

[El_Watcher]

They knew from Friday the tyres degraded quick

They knew that in those specific weather conditions and temperature on Friday that they degraded quickly.
The weather on Sunday was different because I think it was colder, and more overcast (hell it rained not long before the race) than on Friday, so they didn't know the degradation in those conditions.

 

[Mr Men]

because an extra stop is even worse?

you dont find it odd that schumacher , hamiltin , vettel and raikkonen all set there fastest laptime directly after the outlap for their last stops?

is it not a sign they were just pacing themselfs because the tyres just dont let you race.

it just seems like everyone is scared to try and better their position because if they do try to race they know what happened to kimi in china

Why is an extra stop worse? he is saying he is held back by the tyres, so why not go full speed with an extra stop? How much is he being held back by?

No I don't find that strange as they bolted on fresh rubber with a lower fuel load, off course they will naturally just go faster as less fuel also helps the tyre wear. Why would you find that strange?

MS went from near enough last to 10th, how was he afraid to race and better his position? makes no sense. And you can ask why Kimi seemed to have no problem racing from 11th to 2nd.....

 

[ps3ud0]

And why did he not complain about it in China? Nico is getting to him maybe...

Combined with Kimi coming back and doing (very) well - might all be a fluke, but I think thats not going to help.

Honestly Ive put it down to him not having his PR head on for the question asked...

ps3ud0

 

[Skeeter]

When the limiting factor for pitstops are the condition of the tyres, then tyre management becomes a major factor.

The only way to remove that and allow drivers to push 100% all the time is to remove the tyre wear factor. To do this you either need tyres which will easily last the whole race, or pitstops to be defined by something else that runs out faster than the tyres do (fuel).

If Pirelli make the tyres more durable, then the same thing will happen, its just people will be managing the tyres for longer and pitting less. And then if they go to far you just end up with the Bridgestone situation where tyres would easily last the whole race and people only pit because the regulations say they have to use both compounds.

Its far more complicated than just 'making the tyres more durable'.

 

[arknor]

they should make the tyres so theres a harder coating of rubber and then a softer layer and then a harder layer or something like that.

im sure its possible then people could push at the start and the end of a stint and still have the artificial middle stint.

they need to do something to let people choose how they want to race instead of forcing everyone to do the same

 

[Mr Men]

There has been plenty of variation in strategy's this year, if MS did not mess up his qual he would not be whinging.

 

[ps3ud0]

Surely just opening up tyre manufacturing is the simplest answer, complaining about artificial racing then trying to solve that by dictating a differing set of artificial rules just defeats the purpose?

Its does feel like F1 at times is just prodding a stick aimlessly hoping one of the changes imposed creates a better spectacle (as opposed to better racing, I think theres a definite distinction), perhaps we are being naive as fans to believe that a better spectacle is no-holds barred racing? It wouldnt surprise me if Bernie didnt think differently...

ps3ud0

 

[One]

Honestly Ive put it down to him not having his PR head on for the question asked...

ps3ud0

It wasn't a rant though, it was a very well formulated response to the question. Button has also questioned the tires.

It's clear to see the only overtaking that is being done is when someone who has slightly better tires catches up to someone who has gone too fast.

They are literally being penalised for racing too fast, I can't believe anyone would defend these tires the way they are.

I'm all for having tires that become rubbish forcing tire changes, but not having tires that instantly degrade. They should be able to go flat out for at least 15 laps before the tires start to wear.

 

[Mr Men]

Button had no complaints in Australia, seems like it's just an easy excuse to blame the tyres for not doing well, like McLaren yesterday.

Di Resta done 2 stops yesterday.

 

[ps3ud0]

It wasn't a rant though, it was a very well formulated response to the question. Button has also questioned the tires.

It's clear to see the only overtaking that is being done is when someone who has slightly better tires catches up to someone who has gone too fast.

They are literally being penalised for racing too fast, I can't believe anyone would defend these tires the way they are.

I'm all for having tires that become rubbish forcing tire changes, but not having tires that instantly degrade. They should be able to go flat out for at least 15 laps before the tires start to wear.

In all honesty his remarks would have been better responded if he had taken them up with the FIA and Pirelli directly and not on camera. These are still the tyres that were celebrated last season for the exciting (albeit 'artificial') racing.

I dont disagree with his statement, just the forum he used to state it, especially if Pirelli are saying that he was happy with them pre-season. So whats changed, because the tyres and how they work hasnt? Plenty of opportunity to fix it through the right channels if there was an issue...

EDIT: BTW its tyre not tire

ps3ud0

 

[arknor]

There has been plenty of variation in strategy's this year, if MS did not mess up his qual he would not be whinging.

without broken drs he would be fine as brawn said schumacher lost 0.5 second because of no drs in the last sector.

either way racing sucks right now with these comedy tyres, maybe the tyres are why the whole field is so close as everyone is racing to the speed of the tyres and not the speed of the car.

it makes sense when you consider the screenshot i posted yesterday with almost the whole field lapping within 1-3 tenths of each other

 

[Mr Men]

without broken drs he would be fine as brawn said schumacher lost 0.5 second because of no drs in the last sector.

either way racing sucks right now with these comedy tyres

Or without making a mistake? again easy to blame something other than the driver

 

[One]

In all honesty his remarks would have been better responded if he had taken them up with the FIA and Pirelli directly and not on camera. These are still the tyres that were celebrated last season for the exciting (albeit 'artificial') racing.

I dont disagree with his statement, just the forum he used to state it, especially if Pirelli are saying that he was happy with them pre-season. So whats changed, because the tyres and how they work hasnt? Plenty of opportunity to fix it through the right channels if there was an issue...

EDIT: BTW its tyre not tire

ps3ud0

Being happy with the tires at Mugello is completely different to being happy with them. As far as I can tell from what MS and others have said is that the tires are being affected by conditions more than they should be. The drivers should have to turn up to a new track on Friday and discover they are using a tire that behaves completely differently to the last race. By all means they expect difference due to it being a different track but they shouldn't have to find differences in the tires as well. They feel as though they are changing brand each race, Pirelli one week Bridgestone the next, there's no consistency.

The tires this year are NOT the same as last year, Pirelli have made the tires even worse this year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/16725354
"put more rubber on the ground"

BTW tire is a valid spelling, it's also easier to type than tyre.

 

[arknor]

Or without making a mistake? again easy to blame something other than the driver

easy to troll on these forums aswell

and from what we have seen of F1 this year its easy to race to the speed of the tyres instead of the speed the driver and car are capable off.

you nolonger need skill to drive an f1 car with these tyres and all the pay drivers are just confirming it.

 

[FrankJH]

Di Resta done 2 stops yesterday.

I understood he was very near "the cliff", wasnt Alonso catching him quite massively on the last lap?

(there is a bbc interview with PDR stating one more lap and he wouldnt havebeen able to defend at all, well I actually he said a couple of corners rather than even a lap)

The team and PDR judged it very finely and it worked, but he could have lost a lot of points yesterday through little fault of his/theirs


edit - apart from a couple of BBC interview clips after the race, the only thing I participated in was the radio 5 commentary (which imo was ****** awful), it was a bad race anyway but live show was absolutely terrible , havent bothered with watching the tv show

 

[ps3ud0]

Being happy with the tires at Mugello is completely different to being happy with them. As far as I can tell from what MS and others have said is that the tires are being affected by conditions more than they should be. The drivers should have to turn up to a new track on Friday and discover they are using a tire that behaves completely differently to the last race. By all means they expect difference due to it being a different track but they shouldn't have to find differences in the tires as well. They feel as though they are changing brand each race, Pirelli one week Bridgestone the next, there's no consistency.

The tires this year are NOT the same as last year, Pirelli have made the tires even worse this year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/16725354
"put more rubber on the ground"

Think you bypassed my main point that if those concerns are present then they need to made to the FIA and Pirelli directly and not via the media. MS should know this and no doubt if it was a lesser driver, more here would have said the same thing. For what Ive seen/read Pirelli seem to be quite accomodating (apart from tyre pressures ), so I just dont see where his remark was made is at all that professional.

Also how they work is the same, I didnt say they were the same tyres, more that their performance and drop off characteristics are the same.

ps3ud0

 

[Mr Men]

easy to troll on these forums aswell

and from what we have seen of F1 this year its easy to race to the speed of the tyres instead of the speed the driver and car are capable off.

you nolonger need skill to drive an f1 car with these tyres and all the pay drivers are just confirming it.

Oh the usual "troll" comment when you don't like another's opinions, how novel LOL Maybe Pirelli should have brought hard and medium compounds here, that is probably a mistake they made but I heard no complaints from MS when his team used the tyres better in China to win....

Did MS make a mistake on his qual run, yes or no?

Did Merc pay for MS to make his Jordan debut, yes or no?

So no idea what you are on about with pay drivers...who are the pay drivers on the grid by the way? Can you also explain why Nico is dominating MS when they should both be running identical pace due to the tyres being the limit? How was Nico able to pull away from MS in China?

 

[Skeeter]

either way racing sucks right now with these comedy tyres, maybe the tyres are why the whole field is so close as everyone is racing to the speed of the tyres and not the speed of the car.

Doesn't explain why its still just as close during qualifying.

easy to troll on these forums aswell.

Lol.

Has anyone else noticed that arknors opinion on things seems to directly correlate to Schumacher's experience with them at any given time?

 

[arknor]

Oh the usual "troll" comment when you don't like another's opinions, how novel LOL Maybe Pirelli should have brought hard and medium compounds here, that is probably a mistake they made but I heard no complaints from MS when his team used the tyres better in China to win....

he didnt run enough in china to find out

Did MS make a mistake on his qual run, yes or no?

you know damn well he didnt.. look at the sector times... look at drs usage....

Did Merc pay for MS to make his Jordan debut, yes or no?

did merc pay benneton? did they pay ferrari?

they paid for one race and from one qualifying session he was in the sport off his own back at a time when it wasnt easy to drive a car casually because the tyres demanded it

Doesn't explain why its still just as close during qualifying.

everyone was within 2-3 tenths during qualy? after rbr , mclaren , merc and renault there was a big gap
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