Bahrain Grand Prix 2014, Sakhir - Race 3/19

I said removing the fuel flow limit, which would be Idiotic, it would remove racing. The only thing limiting BHP is the fuel flow rate. With out a fuel flow rate limit, the driver could dial in any number of program, get behind someone then have 100bhp on tap fir 3 seconds to get passed, then dial it down again. They would not heed to increase capacity. As you can use extra flow without using more per race, its also quite clear mercy runners at least are underfulling anyway.

So yes saying remove fuel flow limit is idiotic.
 
Nico was on the harder tyre during the middle of the race and soft tyres at the end of the race compared to the harder tyre that lewis was on. Nice was on the better tyre at the end of the race, however the delta was not as big in favour of the soft tyre as had been seen previously in the weekend. Closer to 0.2s per lap instead of 0.6s.

Both lewis and Nico had fresh tyres at every stop due to not having to burn through sets in qualifying, and both only 2 stopping the race, meaning 1 fresh set of softs and 1 fresh set of hards put on both. The only time both drivers would have been using used tyres was at the start of the race when both had to start on the set they used to set the fastest lap in Q2.

Well according to the commenary Nico was on used tyres.

0.2s is not going to make any difference at all vs the same car (well actually its unlikely to make any difference no matter what car you are in)

Jenson reckons the Mclaren is second only to Mercedes in pace terms now, and that he could have possibly reeled Hulk and Perez in at the end but nevermind, we'll have to wait and see what happens in China.
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Maybe on race pace, but not on single lap /quali pace

Such a pity after such a great effort up to the safety car to get such a terminal technical issue (ok, he probably could have continued, but would have been out of the points)

However much I would like to see it, I always thought McLaren had the car to get past the Williams at the weekend, but I just wasnt convinced the FI would definitely be passed.
 
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I said removing the fuel flow limit, which would be Idiotic, it would remove racing. The only thing limiting BHP is the fuel flow rate. With out a fuel flow rate limit, the driver could dial in any number of program, get behind someone then have 100bhp on tap fir 3 seconds to get passed, then dial it down again. They would not heed to increase capacity. As you can use extra flow without using more per race, its also quite clear mercy runners at least are underfulling anyway.

So yes saying remove fuel flow limit is idiotic.

Chill, I'm on your side :D

Removing the fuel flow on its own is stupid, agreed. They will just turn it up and down throught the race. But people like Luca are suggesting it as a way to allow the cars to rev harder and produce more power and sound better, which wouldn't be possible consistently without also increaseing the capacity limit, which kind of defeats the point.
 
And also invpcrease heat and gailure rate etc.
Luca just needs to dissaoeare into retirement and never be head again.

As pointed out, they would still be behind, the mercy would still be better, actually as the mercy needs less cooling, they would benefit more. As Brindle said the entire PU is designed around these rules. You can't just go changing it. Can you imagine how much more heat the Renaults would need to get rid off, running at higher revs for most if the race. Then you would have every team, just getting the energy from ERS-H to increase braking balance as H is unlimited. Muffling the sound anyway.


They just need to get over the noise and stick with it, they sound far better than the high
scream.

Wonder what people would have made with the 1996? williams Car which had continuous gear, so one engine note the entire race.
 
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Loldonado. What a tool, now pointing the finger at Gutierrez..

Maldonado misjudged it, but he wasn't just expecting Gutierrez to let him by or treating his car as an inconveniently thick fog bank. There wasn't enough room on the inside and he didn't have time to lift off by the time he realised Gutierrez was taking a tighter line than expected. The penalty was fair, but all the "Hurr, the Butcher of Caracas claims another victim" stuff really isn't.
 
There wasn't enough room on the inside and he didn't have time to lift off by the time he realised Gutierrez was taking a tighter line than expected.
He did not take a 'tighter line than expected', he was going around the corner.

If you watch it again you'll see Gutierrez even leaves a couple of metres space on the apex as he's seen Loldonado come out of the pits. But obviously it wasn't enough for the Lotus.
 
Nico was on the harder tyre during the middle of the race and soft tyres at the end of the race compared to the harder tyre that lewis was on. Nice was on the better tyre at the end of the race, however the delta was not as big in favour of the soft tyre as had been seen previously in the weekend. Closer to 0.2s per lap instead of 0.6s.

Both lewis and Nico had fresh tyres at every stop due to not having to burn through sets in qualifying, and both only 2 stopping the race, meaning 1 fresh set of softs and 1 fresh set of hards put on both. The only time both drivers would have been using used tyres was at the start of the race when both had to start on the set they used to set the fastest lap in Q2.

The tire difference was much bigger than that, there are just multiple reasons why it won't work out in race of which non applied to Rosberg.

Firstly Hamilton pitted on around lap 20 and again on lap 42 or so. Effectively every extra lap you want you've got to slow the pace on the tyre and you have to drop more time on the soft than the medium. THe longer the stint the closer the pace of different tires. Secondly Hamilton was fuel saving till what 2/3rd's of the way through that stint. Third, multiple laps he did had a 0.4second improvement, more laps 0.4 seconds faster than 0.2 then the tyre went off around the 15 lap mark and the improvements shrank and Nico was gaining on him for the last few laps.

For Rosberg, after the safety car came in there were only 10 laps to Hamilton's 21-22 laps on the tyre, that meant faster speeds and bigger delta the lower the number of laps you do, this means it was significantly about 0.4 seconds a lap faster. Hamilton doing a 22 lap stint did multiple laps 0.4 seconds faster, on higher fuel an fuel saving. Rosberg only had to do 10 laps or so with much lower fuel and with all fuel saving turned off.

Even then, he went flat out for 5 laps at least trying to pass where the advantage was even larger. He wasn't worrying about the speed in the final 5 laps of the stint, he was leaving everything on the track with those tires, everything, because if he got past the tires would have a couple laps fast enough to get a gap that he would have held on even when the tires went off.

You simply can't compare someone trying to eek out soft tyres to someone who gave absolutely no regard to the tire life for 5 laps, the difference is night and day. I would think the soft tire was likely offering 0.8-1 second advantage a lap at least under these conditions and we can see by how quickly the tire fell off exactly how much he was "using" the tire in those 5 laps.

Without the safety car if Rosberg had been on the same pace the tires would have been destroyed over 15 laps, he would have had to use a much less aggressive pace and may have approached hamilton towards the end but probably without a huge amount of advantage in tires. The safety car just allowed him to push the car maxed out and you could see easily how much advantage the tire gave him in traction out of corners and braking later in to corners.
 
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Did Nico get pushed off the track by Lewis today a bit too much? Looked quite aggressive didn't it?

Just thinking back, didn't Nico call in cos of it at one stage, and at the end of the race he admitted to Pinks that he wanted to hit him in the face lol. He was really angry about Lewis' driving today I think, gonna have to rewatch it.

It was a tiny bit aggressive in my eyes but still within racing limits. I would have thought if that wasn't for first place then the fight wouldn't of been as aggressive. Also if they weren't on such similar pace I think one of them would have given up sooner but as they were so close and for the lead I don't think either one of them wanted to yield at all.

Great Job by Lewis! I was rooting for Rosberg to get past though to see if Hamilton could take a stab back at him. Or if it was just the defensive lines that were keeping him ahead.

I do wonder how well Lewis would have taken it though if he did get beat? Would be pout about the safety car etc or would he take it gracefully like Nico did (somewhat, he still seems somewhat annoyed which is expected).
 
I missed the first half of the race yesterday but my goodness the racing that happened after the safety car. Makes me think that F1 should move to a few 15-20 lap sprint races like BTCC, especially if we can get that sort of close competition.
 
I missed the first half of the race yesterday but my goodness the racing that happened after the safety car. Makes me think that F1 should move to a few 15-20 lap sprint races like BTCC, especially if we can get that sort of close competition.

I wouldn't tune in if it was 15-20 laps. Too short. 60 odd laps is perfect for a Grand Prix :)
 
It was a tiny bit aggressive in my eyes but still within racing limits. I would have thought if that wasn't for first place then the fight wouldn't of been as aggressive. Also if they weren't on such similar pace I think one of them would have given up sooner but as they were so close and for the lead I don't think either one of them wanted to yield at all.

Great Job by Lewis! I was rooting for Rosberg to get past though to see if Hamilton could take a stab back at him. Or if it was just the defensive lines that were keeping him ahead.

I do wonder how well Lewis would have taken it though if he did get beat? Would be pout about the safety car etc or would he take it gracefully like Nico did (somewhat, he still seems somewhat annoyed which is expected).

If the situations were reversed, I don't know but if Rosberg actually got past then Hamilton actually would have been screwed almost entirely by the safety car. Rosberg has no reason to "take it gracefully" without a braking issue effecting his weekend, a faster set up as a result, starting ahead and ending on the faster tyre with the safety car making up a 10 second gap for him he still failed entirely on his own merit.

I'd be extremely unhappy to lose that race because a safety car screwed me, and would have nothing to complain about if given every advantage I couldn't make it stick.

The situation wouldn't be comparable, the real question would be what would Rosberg have done if he won it, he didn't win and he is banging on about being fastest, if he did win would he have said it was Hamilton's and only the safety car gifted him the win?
 
Anyway I'm not being biased or anything given that I support ferrari but are we not in a similar situation as in prior years? One team dominating and fighting for the title, fine a different team and different drivers but I do wonder if people would be so enthusiastic as to the current situation if it was red bull and vettel/ricci.

Don't get me wrong it was definitely a good race to watch (how much of that was to do with the safety car though?) but I would still prefer a season that wasn't a foregone conclusion (either hamilton/rosberg) this early on. I just don't see anyone being able to develop their way into contention in enough time before merc are completely out of sight. This is just my opinion though!
 
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Anyway I'm not being biased or anything given that I support ferrari but are we not in a similar situation as in prior years? One team dominating and fighting for the title, fine a different team and different drivers but I do wonder if people would be so enthusiastic as to the current situation if it was red bull and vettel/ricci.

Don't get me wrong it was definitely a good race to watch (how much of that was to do with the safety car though?) but I would still prefer a season that wasn't a foregone conclusion (either hamilton/rosberg) this early on. I just don't see anyone being able to develop their way into contention in enough time before merc are completely out of sight. This is just my opinion though!
Difference is that before Vettel was just driving away and winning, now the mercs are driving away, but are still fighting each other the whole way
 
I don't think there's any real difference.
I'm happy for one team to dominate as that is what F1 is most seasons. Even going back decades it was usually one team out in front.
 
I don't think there's any real difference.
I'm happy for one team to dominate as that is what F1 is most seasons. Even going back decades it was usually one team out in front.

No I agree, ferrari did it with Schumi. My point was a lot of people were complaining about red bulls dominance yet it's going to be no different. I for one never really had a problem with it as I've come to terms with Ferrari not getting their act together. I was just hoping a few teams would at least be a bit closer as it looks like merc are going to saunter to the title. There was a small part of me that hoped Ferrari would pull something out of the bag with the new reg change but alas they've failed again :p
 
Don't get me wrong it was definitely a good race to watch (how much of that was to do with the safety car though?) but I would still prefer a season that wasn't a foregone conclusion (either hamilton/rosberg) this early on. I just don't see anyone being able to develop their way into contention in enough time before merc are completely out of sight. This is just my opinion though!
The exact same was being said in 2009 after Brawn had a ~0.5s car advantage and Red Bull caught up by mid-season. Obviously there's more of a gap this time, nearly 6 times in fact, but it's by no means impossible for it to happen. There's another 15 races to go yet :)
 
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