Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

[TheLegendOfMart]

Well those things are typically quoted by people who don't understand the bible to be fair. Slavery was different in biblical times as were the social and political aspects at the time compared to now whereby most of the slaves spoken of in the bible were prisoners of war.

I would encourage you to read this on slavery, it's short, to the point and covers most of what I would say on the subject.

Regarding the points you made on the sabbath and shellfish etc, the key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the 10 Commandments, e.g.) Some laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (sacrificial system). Some of laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). As hard to believe as some of these laws were, remember that they were for the Israelites, not the Christian. This is the key here - none of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15) because He fulfilled it, completely. That of course doesn't mean the Christian is to go around murdering or stealing but to follow the example of Jesus and follow His teachings - "I Am the Way" He said.


Call it what you like, it doesn't change the fact of what the bible says. I suggest you take it up with God as He wrote the bible, He'd give you a much better explanation than me.

It's like these tax avoidance schemes that are in the news at the moment; avoiding tax is illegal but people try and get around it by interpreting the law in a certain way, the law hasn't changed, avoidance remains illegal but the interpretation has which (to some) justifies the act of robbing the tax man... to little success now if press reports are correct (not the best analogy but slightly topical I guess).

Oh I get it, it's all open to interpretation and you twist what is in the bible to fit your own beliefs and agenda, you try and explain away the ones that don't make sense and take the ones that follow your own beliefs as gospel truth.

FYI the UK follows Common Law not Christian Law so the Bible could say anything was illegal and it would mean diddly squat.

Are you actually saying that you can be forced to support a political campaign to change the law as it stands simply because that law affects a minority ?

Since when does making something as a core product of your business mean you are now supporting the message that is written on the product?

I don't like Man Utd but I have to make chairs for Man Utd, that doesn't mean I'm going to go cry to HR saying I don't like them and that they are infringing on my beliefs and refuse to make them, if I did they would turn round and say make them or you are sacked. I make them because that is what I do, make chairs.

The only reason this is a problem is because they are bigoted, they are hiding behind religious beliefs/freedom as a tactic, pure and simple.

 

[krooton]

So has anyone sued Barclays yet, or is that clause just being conveniently ignored?

 

[anything I don't mind]

Equality commission is a joke. It is "equality" aka special treatment and favours only for certain types of people, including but not limited to, jews, non whites, muslims, non english, homosexuals and of course women.

How is forcing someone to make a gay cake any different than forcing someone to make an edl cake or any other type of cake? it is not.

Its like that "right of admission reserved" except jews, non-whites and homosexuals. however homosexual only clubs and jewish only clubs are allowed. Got to love marxist equality.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Equality commission is a joke. It is "equality" aka special treatment and favours only for certain types of people, including but not limited to, jews, non whites, muslims, non english, homosexuals and of course women.

How is forcing someone to make a gay cake any different than forcing someone to make an edl cake or any other type of cake? it is not.

Its like that "right of admission reserved" except jews, non-whites and homosexuals. however homosexual only clubs and jewish only clubs are allowed. Got to love marxist equality.

Let's play spot the racist, didn't have to look far.

How can a cake be gay, does it prance around, have a gay voice, limp wrist and have sex with other male cakes?

Since when are straight people not allowed into gay clubs, they regularly go there cruising for straight women who go out with gay friends.

Wouldn't be surprised if you were a skinhead or part of a white supremacy group.

Also not sure why your name is "anything I don't mind", it should be "anything as long as its not jewish, female, gay or black"

 

[233]

Equality commission is a joke. It is "equality" aka special treatment and favours only for certain types of people, including but not limited to, jews, non whites, muslims, non english, homosexuals and of course women.

How is forcing someone to make a gay cake any different than forcing someone to make an edl cake or any other type of cake? it is not.

Its like that "right of admission reserved" except jews, non-whites and homosexuals. however homosexual only clubs and jewish only clubs are allowed. Got to love marxist equality.

you do make a good point if slightly going OT

if you have an organisation for Black people(Black police officers association for example) an organisation for gay people or an organisation for women only thats perfectly acceptable


could you imagine the uproar if you were to start an organisation for say only straight or white people or for men only you would be strung up

 

[cheesyboy]

Equality commission is a joke. It is "equality" aka special treatment and favours only for certain types of people, including but not limited to, jews, non whites, muslims, non english, homosexuals and of course women.

How is forcing someone to make a gay cake any different than forcing someone to make an edl cake or any other type of cake? it is not.

How is someone requesting a gay cake any different from requesting a straight cake? It's hardly equality when the straight cake request is honoured and the gay cake is refused. Are the straights getting "equality" aka special treatment?

You don't have to be gay to attend a gay club. I can't claim to know anything about Jewish clubs.

 

[elmarko]

Equality commission is a joke. It is "equality" aka special treatment and favours only for certain types of people, including but not limited to, jews, non whites, muslims, non english, homosexuals and of course women.

How is forcing someone to make a gay cake any different than forcing someone to make an edl cake or any other type of cake? it is not.

Its like that "right of admission reserved" except jews, non-whites and homosexuals. however homosexual only clubs and jewish only clubs are allowed. Got to love marxist equality.

Hi Mel Gibson.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

you do make a good point if slightly going OT

if you have an organisation for Black people(Black police officers association for example) an organisation for gay people or an organisation for women only thats perfectly acceptable


could you imagine the uproar if you were to start an organisation for say only straight or white people or for men only you would be strung up

Have you ever been beat up or discriminated against purely because you were a white, straight, male?

That's why there are minority groups, so that people can meet and chat with like minded people who are in the same situation about things that affect them, the fact that you can only see it as a slight against the white male justifies their existence.

There is a reason why there is no straight pride day, every freaking day is straight pride day, TV shows, movies, advertising, books, music, all aimed at straight people.

 

[kedge]

homosexuaility will become just another accepted fact of society.

It already is, poor excuse. Let's just gove over some things, homosexual/gay people get married, gay people adopt children, many are successfull in business, many are celebrities etc etc, many gay people get along just fine in this system of things, your post is just another demand for wanting everyone to conform to your way of thinking or accept your behaviour or conduct, let's be clear about this.

 

[spoffle]

It's easy for those in a position of privilege to say 'Oh people should just stop complaining' when they are not the ones being discriminated against for holding political views or their sexuality.

I have been discriminated against though, or at least people have attempted it. I wouldn't say I'm in position of privilege either, as I've had somewhat of a rough start in life which has influenced how I deal with things.

 

[anything I don't mind]

I know some of you can't handle the word jew being used in a sentence without it being overly positive, but get over it and grow up.

Gays clearly have found a way to make a gay cake that is why this thread exists. If they had just called up and requested a normal cake then they would have made it without a problem. It is when the gay people requesting the cake want to add a message or make a cake in a funny shape (i can only imagine) that is when the person making the cake might not want to make it.

You can't force people to make cakes they do not want to make, this is simple economics. Business have the right to turn down business based on any reason what so ever, except if they jewish, non white, homosexual. Then the business has no rights and these groups of people can force any business to do business with them or they can go running crying the D word to the special treatment and favours commission.

There may be 100s of valid reasons to turn down business, the business make the mistake of saying that it is because of the gayness. If they just said they don't want to make it because its not worth their time, valid reason. But i bet the gay people requesting the cake would still cry to the special treatment and favours commissions the big D word if someone doesn't make them a cake even if they give a valid economic reason.

 

[RDM]

you do make a good point if slightly going OT

if you have an organisation for Black people(Black police officers association for example) an organisation for gay people or an organisation for women only thats perfectly acceptable


could you imagine the uproar if you were to start an organisation for say only straight or white people or for men only you would be strung up

http://aamn.org/

Where there is a need, it would seem to be accepted.

 

[cheesyboy]

I know someone of you can't handle the word jew being used in a sentence without it being overly positive, but get over it and grow up.

Gays clearly have found a way to make a gay cake that is why this thread exists. If they had just called up and requested a normal cake then they would have made it without a problem. It is when the gay people requesting the cake want to add a message or make a cake in a funny shape (i can only imagine) that is when the person making the cake might not want to make it.

You can't force people to make cakes they do not want to make, this is simple economics. Business have the right to turn down business based on any reason what so ever, except if they jewish, non white, homosexual. Then the business has no rights and these groups of people can force any business to do business with them or they can go running crying the D word to the special treatment and favours commission.

If it were a bakers who specialised in gay cakes, which refused to make a straight wedding cake then they would be caught by the same legislation.

There may be 100s of valid reasons to turn down business, the business make the mistake of saying that it is because of the gayness. If they just said they don't want to make it because its not worth their time, valid reason. But i bet the gay people requesting the cake would still cry to the special treatment and favours commissions the big D word if someone doesn't make them a cake even if they give a valid economic reason.

They would probably need to come up with a reason that this cake wasn't worth their time. I mean, it's a bespoke cake and they are bespoke cake makers; they can quote whatever price they want to make it!

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

I know some of you can't handle the word jew being used in a sentence without it being overly positive, but get over it and grow up.

Gays clearly have found a way to make a gay cake that is why this thread exists. If they had just called up and requested a normal cake then they would have made it without a problem. It is when the gay people requesting the cake want to add a message or make a cake in a funny shape (i can only imagine) that is when the person making the cake might not want to make it.

You can't force people to make cakes they do not want to make, this is simple economics. Business have the right to turn down business based on any reason what so ever, except if they jewish, non white, homosexual. Then the business has no rights and these groups of people can force any business to do business with them or they can go running crying the D word to the special treatment and favours commission.

There may be 100s of valid reasons to turn down business, the business make the mistake of saying that it is because of the gayness. If they just said they don't want to make it because its not worth their time, valid reason. But i bet the gay people requesting the cake would still cry to the special treatment and favours commissions the big D word if someone doesn't make them a cake even if they give a valid economic reason.

Racist homophobe sees no problem in denying service to gays, or jews, or blacks, gotchya.

I'm surprised people like you manage to function in society.

 

[anything I don't mind]

You don't get it. It is about economics and property rights. If a business does not have the right to decide who to do business with then he has no rights and that is a slippery slope. You can't have some arbitrary one sided bias commission that dictates to business who they have to do business with.

You just so one track minded all you see is racism and homophobia. You don't stop for a second and think of the economic implications of forcing business to do business when they don't want to do it.

There are no straight cakes, this is where gays are so silly.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

You don't get it. It is about economics and property rights. If a business does not have the right to decide who to do business with then he has no rights and that is a slippery slope. You can't have some arbitrary one sided bias commission that dictates to business who they have to do business with.

You just so one track minded all you see is racism and homophobia. You don't stop for a second and think of the economic implications of forcing business to do business when they don't want to do it.

There are no straight cakes, this is where gays are so silly.

What implication, they make a cake for gay person, gay person pays, company gets money. Win win.

What the hell is wrong with you, they didn't ask for a gay cake. They asked for a cake with a sesame street topping. I bet you don't have any problems with penis shaped cakes for straight women when they have parties/hen do's/whatever.

 

[cheesyboy]

You don't get it. It is about economics and property rights. If a business does not have the right to decide who to do business with then he has no rights and that is a slippery slope. You can't have some arbitrary one sided bias commission that dictates to business who they have to do business with.

You just so one track minded all you see is racism and homophobia. You don't stop for a second and think of the economic implications of forcing business to do business when they don't want to do it.

So what would be the economic implication of a cake makers reluctantly making a gay cake?

 

[boxman2000]

Oh I get it, it's all open to interpretation and you twist what is in the bible to fit your own beliefs and agenda, you try and explain away the ones that don't make sense and take the ones that follow your own beliefs as gospel truth.

FYI the UK follows Common Law not Christian Law so the Bible could say anything was illegal and it would mean diddly squat.

Firstly, I didn’t say it was open to interpretation, you’re trying to argue black is white when the facts are there for all to read yet everyone has an opinion on a book that most haven’t read. An open-minded atheist would see that the bible is saying Christ came to fulfil the Law so that the Christian can live through Christ, whether they believe in that or not doesn’t detract from the truth that this is what is clearly written, no interpretation, no metaphors. Yet it’s much easier to try and be clever and say it’s down to my beliefs and it’s my interpretation when it actually is completely the opposite – I base my belief and opinion on the bible, the whole bible, in this instance you clearly base your opinion on misinformation.

How have I tried to explain anything away? It’s there, READ it for yourself rather than be a sheep and follow what others have told you.

I am well aware the UK follows Common Law but the point is that these cake shop owners are Christians and go by the bible – some people are unwilling to compromise and that is that.

The only reason this is a problem is because they are bigoted, they are hiding behind religious beliefs/freedom as a tactic, pure and simple.

That is YOUR opinion and this is the whole problem - everyone has their own opinion of what is right and wrong. Who is right? Everyone? Nobody? Who is judge and jury? So you think a bigot is anyone that disagrees with someone based on their religious beliefs? Good job that isn't bigoted.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

How have I tried to explain anything away? It’s there, READ it for yourself rather than be a sheep and follow what others have told you.

That's rich, a Christian telling me to stop being a sheep.

I am well aware the UK follows Common Law but the point is that these cake shop owners are Christians and go by the bible – some people are unwilling to compromise and that is that.

They can follow the bible all they want, doesn't change the fact that they have to follow the law of the land, common law.

If I follow the Old Testament and take slaves then I shouldn't be punished by the ACTUAL laws?

 

[anything I don't mind]

So what would be the economic implication of a cake makers reluctantly making a gay cake?

The economic implications is not on the cake maker refusing to make cakes for whatever reason or the pamplet producer refusing to make pamplets for whatever reason or the club refusing entry for whatever reason. The economic implication comes about when the special treatment and favours commission forces business to make cakes when they don't want to, forces pamplet producers to make pamplets when they don't want to and forces clubs to let people in when they don't want to.

Business should have the right to decide who they want to do business with. Maybe australian people ripped this one guy off one time and from now on he does not want to do business with australians, that is his right as someone who is doing business that would be a bit silly and he will lose out for sure, but it is the business owners right to do that.

If i am selling a painting and i want it to go to someone who will appreciate it then someone says they want to buy it and he happens to be gay. Then i don't think he will appreciate it because he doesn't know enough about art. Then that is the sellers prerogative. You can't start forcing sellers to do business that is just not how capitalism works. That is exactly how marxist communism works however.r People are forced to do business.