They do not want to associate with or implicitly support a political campaign to change the law on same sex marriage...they have not produced literature on cakes to explicitly support a campaign to retain the law either.
They have made it clear they oppose gay marriage which IS a political stance.
There is a difference between refusing to support a political campaign
regardless of your views on it and refusing to support a political campaign
because of your views.
The former is refusing to support a political campaign, the latter is supporting the opposing political argument.
The former is non-partisan, the other is not.
Ashers are using the latter the justify their decision.
Conducting or receiving a Same sex marriage in Northern Ireland is illegal.
No it's not. If two men were in a field in NI with me and I said all the vows and declared them married would either....
A) I and the couple would be arrested/fined
B) Nothing would happen, the couple's union just wouldn't be recognized in any legal sense.
Hint, the answer is B.
'Illegal' isn't synonymous with 'not legal'. For something to be illegal it has to be explicitly declared so by statute, not simply omitted from the current legislation.
This is a matter of legislation in Northern Ireland and is not in dispute. The recognition of same sex marriages in Northern Ireland is unlawful, therefore same sex couples married under laws in other countries only receive recognition under the Civil Partnership rules in Northern Ireland.
I agree, my point is they are not arrested on arrival for marrying in another country which they would be if it were "illegal".
Not recognising something is different to recognising and prohibiting it.
In fact, this proves my point further. For something to be made illegal it must be recognised as an 'act' in the first place. Given gay marriage is not in NI shows it therefore cannot be 'illegal'.
The first, is positively forbidden (you cannot conduct a same sex wedding nor be married as a same sex couple in Northern Ireland) therefore illegal...
You are wrong again. The only unlawfully marriages 'positively' recognised in law in NI
are close relations, the law simply doesn't state that gay people can have a marriage recognised by law, and again that is not the same as it being "illegal".
Read the thread, it was explained several times how a company can be implicitly associated with the goods and services it supplies and the campaigns, political and otherwise that it contracts to.
I'd rather have your justification than trawl through over 1,000 posts to find one.
Please explain how writing something on a cake means you 'support it' and therefore why that cake makers don't refuse to put a plethora of messages on they don't think are literally true?
I saw a cake the other day which said "World's Best Dad". Now given the baker had never met the man how can he 'support' such a statement and does this then bar that baker from making another for his father? Of course not.
They have based it on their belief that gay marriage should remain defined between a man and woman, which, in Northern Ireland is the current legal definition...are you saying they have to support, either explicitly or implicitly a change in the law or a group that is campaigning for a change in the law?
No, it is you who are defending their right to actively oppose a change in the law (hence hold a political stance) and not me. I am saying had they refused it on the basis they didn't want to be seen supporting any political message regardless of their view it would have been OK, but they didn't say that.
I am giving them the right to be ambivalent towards the issue and refuse on that basis, you are saying they should be able to take one side so long as that side is the status quo.
