Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

FoxEye · 20 May 2015 at 23:27

Well, seems they have them bent over a barrel. Refusing the job and not stating why could be easily defeated, as a 2nd request for the same cake minus the message could be used a proof were it subsequently made.

I wonder if they can force the business to fire its chef if the chef, not the business, refuses to do the work?

Just thinking if there's any way now for any business or person to refuse work he finds objectionable, if there's a militant minority involved...

Tosno · 20 May 2015 at 23:28

estebanrey said:
If they were being true to their religion, they should also refuse to make cakes for anyone that is remarrying (Mark 10:11–12)

I've never seen a cake that was iced with "Thank you for being my Second Wife"

TheLegendOfMart · 21 May 2015 at 07:19

FoxEye said:
Well, seems they have them bent over a barrel. Refusing the job and not stating why could be easily defeated, as a 2nd request for the same cake minus the message could be used a proof were it subsequently made.

I wonder if they can force the business to fire its chef if the chef, not the business, refuses to do the work?

Just thinking if there's any way now for any business or person to refuse work he finds objectionable, if there's a militant minority involved...

Militant minority who just want the same civil rights as every other straight person, sorry if that inconveniences you.

atpbx · 21 May 2015 at 08:03

TheLegendOfMart said:
Militant minority who just want the same civil rights as every other straight person, sorry if that inconveniences you.

They had the same civil rights as every other straight person.

Their rights were not being effected at any time.

Sorry if you can't understand this.

spudbynight · 21 May 2015 at 08:42

FoxEye said:
Well, seems they have them bent over a barrel. Refusing the job and not stating why could be easily defeated, as a 2nd request for the same cake minus the message could be used a proof were it subsequently made.

I wonder if they can force the business to fire its chef if the chef, not the business, refuses to do the work?

Just thinking if there's any way now for any business or person to refuse work he finds objectionable, if there's a militant minority involved...

Check out this story in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...s-same-sex-couple-to-ask-for-refund-1.3077192

A lesbian couple went into a jewellers and asked for a pair of wedding rings. They were served, and served well. They then kicked off when they found out the owner supported traditional marriage. They were not disadvantaged in any way. They posted a picture of a poster in the shop on their Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0464859215034.641363.728650033&type=1&theater

My favourite comment is this :

Couldn't believe it when Emma told me this today. It's not ok for the gays to get married, but it's ok to take their money. Friggin' douchebags.

Make no mistake, this sort of carry on is NOT about discrimination. It is about the militant suppression of people with different views.

spudbynight · 21 May 2015 at 08:46

Woden said:
Having a belief and acting on it are different things.

Google support gay marriage but don't refuse to send my anti gay marriage emails.

Actively campaigning in a referendum campaign isn't acting on it?
:confused:

dirtychinchilla · 21 May 2015 at 08:58

Not support gay marriage is buffoonery.

spudbynight · 21 May 2015 at 09:00

dirtychinchilla said:
Not support gay marriage is buffoonery.

Well that is the best argument I have heard so far. It is a shame the "yes" campaign didn't know about you in Ireland. I am sure they could have really made use of you during the campaign.

It isn't the point at hand. The issue is whether people are free to follow their conscience and express their beliefs.

dirtychinchilla · 21 May 2015 at 09:04

Oh yeah, sure, but I'm only expressing my opinion on whether gay marriage is right or not, and it's clear that to oppose it is nonsensical.

spudbynight · 21 May 2015 at 09:07

dirtychinchilla said:
Oh yeah, sure, but I'm only expressing my opinion on whether gay marriage is right or not, and it's clear that to oppose it is nonsensical.

Well it isn't clear, which is why there is so much opposition.

Be thankful you can express your views.

robgmun · 21 May 2015 at 09:11

spudbynight said:
One thing that gets trotted out a lot is that Ashers, as a business doesn't have any beliefs. This is a fallacy. Nobody seems to have an issue with the large number of corporates who publically profess their belief in the redefinition of marriage. There is a referendum in Ireland this Friday on the redefinition of marriage.

Google came out in support with this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuaDPZINJc4

If Ashers can't have an opinion then neither can Google, or for that matter any of the other companies that seem to have very strong beliefs in this regard.

Agreed, what about Christian book shops? Can they be taken to court now if a homosexual demands they stock books about gay acts and they refuse?

dirtychinchilla · 21 May 2015 at 09:12

If we want equal rights in our society, there is absolutely no valid argument against gay marriage. To say that marriage belongs to the church, in 2015, is just fallacy.

Yes, there are opposing views. Do any of the arguments against gay marriage stack up. Not in my opinion.

The Geezer · 21 May 2015 at 09:16

estebanrey said:
How can anyone genuinely think that Ashers' issue with gay marriage is due to devout following of scripture and not a bigoted position they hold which they are attributing to their religion after the fact as justification?

Religion as we all know supports bigotry, too many examples to say otherwise but you are right if you are going to use religion as your shield at least follow the faith therefore you don't look like a complete hypocrite, aka bigot.

spudbynight · 21 May 2015 at 09:16

dirtychinchilla said:
If we want equal rights in our society, there is absolutely no valid argument against gay marriage. To say that marriage belongs to the church, in 2015, is just fallacy.

Yes, there are opposing views. Do any of the arguments against gay marriage stack up. Not in my opinion.

If you are such a fan of equal rights then I presume you are in favour of changing the law to allow male pregnancy?

There are arguments both in favour of and against the redefinition of marriage. I personally don't believe it is an issue of equality, rather an ontological one. I don't suggest you have to share my views. In a free society though we are allowed to express our opinions.

The issue at hand here is the suppression of freedom of conscience. This is a human right.

cheesyboy · 21 May 2015 at 09:16

Supporting an anti-gay marriage policy is supporting the restriction of rights, and therefore the discrimination, of a section of society.

Saying a baker can't turn down a gay version of an acceptable straight cake doesn't restrict anyone's rights, but rather ensures someone's (gays') rights aren't restricted (or, if you prefer, ensures they aren't discriminated against).

dirtychinchilla said:
If we want equal rights in our society, there is absolutely no valid argument against gay marriage. To say that marriage belongs to the church, in 2015, is just fallacy.

Yes, there are opposing views. Do any of the arguments against gay marriage stack up. Not in my opinion.

What are the arguments against gay marriage anyway? Are they rational?

spudbynight · 21 May 2015 at 09:17

The Geezer said:
Religion as we all know supports bigotry, too many examples to say otherwise but you are right if you are going to use religion as your shield at least follow the faith therefore you don't look like a complete hypocrite, aka bigot.

No we don't all know.

These very words in fact indicate that you are the bigot.

Bigotry :

- stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

Your intolerance of a belief that differs from your own seems stubborn to me. It certainly looks like you are bigot.

robgmun · 21 May 2015 at 09:18

The Geezer said:
Religion as we all know supports bigotry, too many examples to say otherwise but you are right if you are going to use religion as your shield at least follow the faith therefore you don't look like a complete hypocrite, aka bigot.

Well then we end up with groups like ISIS then

estebanrey · 21 May 2015 at 09:19

spudbynight said:
Check out this story in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...s-same-sex-couple-to-ask-for-refund-1.3077192

A lesbian couple went into a jewellers and asked for a pair of wedding rings. They were served, and served well. They then kicked off when they found out the owner supported traditional marriage. They were not disadvantaged in any way. They posted a picture of a poster in the shop on their Facebook page.

As I alluded to earlier, if they are devout Christians, they shouldn't even be selling jewellery to any women....

Timothy 2:9

I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,

Illgresi · 21 May 2015 at 09:19

Totally jumped into this thread with no prior reading (probably a good thing).

I'm fully in support of gay rights, and I consider myself an antitheist. That said, in this case I don't see what the issue is. From what I understand, the bible bakery was asked to make a cake that supported gay rights? If that's the case then why should they be expected to create something they don't want to? It's like asking a painter to paint a picture they don't want to. Regardless of the reasoning behind it, they should be free to create the cake art they want to.

Had they utterly refused to serve gay people, then that would be a different case entirely, but I'm sure that's not the case.

cheesyboy · 21 May 2015 at 09:20

spudbynight said:
No we don't all know.

These very words in fact indicate that you are the bigot.

Bigotry :

- stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

Your intolerance of a belief that differs from your own seems stubborn to me. It certainly looks like you are bigot.

Correct.

People are entrenched on either side. Sometimes that's because they know their **** and they're actually right, other times they may or may not be right but they are speaking from a position of bigotry or ignorance.