Ballmer's off...

Glaucus said:
Not at all as, phones bad then where not general computing devices. The market has changed and the stats shows it and shows why MS has to do what they are doing.
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Regardless, stating they've suddenly gone from a 90%+ market share to a sub 40% market share IS somewhat disingenuous, because it's a share of a different market now.

They've not really lost a share of anything so much as everyone else have created a 'new share' for themselves in mobile operating systems and Microsoft haven't capitilised.

Personally I still wouldn't view a mobile OS as part of the same category as a desktop OS, whilst they're very powerful, they're not in the same league and you couldn't realistically use one to replace a desktop.

(Oh and please proof read your posts a bit better, they're bordering on unintelligible nonsense sometimes now, not just a few simple to read around typos here and there)
 
Kenai said:
Regardless, stating they've suddenly gone from a 90%+ market share to a sub 40% market share IS somewhat disingenuous, because it's a share of a different market now.

They've not really lost a share of anything so much as everyone else have created a 'new share' for themselves in mobile operating systems and Microsoft haven't capitilised.

Personally I still wouldn't view a mobile OS as part of the same category as a desktop OS, whilst they're very powerful, they're not in the same league and you couldn't realistically use one to replace desktop.
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It's not at all, there market share has done precisely that. They have lost a share a massive share. Before sales went through them for software on there os, now it's not its going through App Store and google store. Google and apple have both made inroads into coporations as well.

Phones are pc these days, tablets are being used for work, as many companies have allready showen, let alone the importance of smart phones in coporations these days. To disregard them like yu have is the failure both s had in the past and OEMs still have.

In developing countries which is a huge market they have replaced desktops, they can't afford multiple devices or even expensive desktops. It's why low budget smartphones make up such a large portion of the market.
 
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Their market share of a different market, yes.

The desktop/laptop/server market of 2003 is not a directly comparable arena to the desktop/laptop/server/mobile phone/tablet/ipod/smart tv/etc. market of 2013 and pretending they are no different at all is disingenuous.
 
Kenai said:
Their market share of a different market, yes.

The desktop/laptop/server market of 2003 is not a directly comparable arena to the desktop/laptop/server/mobile phone/tablet/ipod/smart tv/etc. market of 2013 and pretending they are no different at all is disingenuous.
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No, same market, not the same thing, they are all pcs it's just the platforms have shifted.
I'm not saying they aren't different, but they certainly are in direct competition. They all have up and downsides so they aren't identical, but saying they aren't in competion goes against the facts and figures.
 
OK, whatever, phones are computers and it's all exactly the same, can't be bothered with your 'bashing head against brick wall' style debate all Friday evening.

All i'm saying is the market has changed and you can't pluck out a stat from a market 10 years ago and pretend it's directly comparable to a totally different market today like they're the same thing still. If you disagree, great, have fun with that.
 
This is all about the market changing. And yes I can show that stat becuase it perfectly illustrates how the market has change and how MS have been caught with there trousers down and have to go after the expanding market.

And off course they've lost, there forecasts would osprey siad growing population, growing need for computers, means high sale figures, but they haven't been met, due to market shift, so they have lost massively.
 
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Glaucus, you must sort your autocorrect out.

I think it's too early to tell what is going to happen with MS. I think their failure with Win8 was poor marketing rather than execution. Instead of people dancing around and meaningless screencaps, they should have explained it better so people didn't freak out the way they did.

Surface, again another marketing failure (RT and pro? Just call it something that explains the difference!), but compounded by low stock availability and poor hardware choices.

Xbone, stupid decisions marketed poorly. Gamers buy consoles, and then they use them for media as well. Pushing the TV functions so hard was a mistake, as were their early decisions to add draconian drm. They uturned but the damage is done.

WP8 is picking up speed and I see it doing well now that there are some good handsets in the pipeline. I really like it as a mobile OS (needs a battery usage monitor that shows which app is eating battery) but it needs more support.

I say they need to sack their marketing team. The products are mostly good. How they're sold demonstrates a lack of understanding on who they are selling to.
 
Totally agree, if they had include a decent tutorial even in the betas and not the useless rubbish we got in final release that would have gone a long way.

There PR departments really do suck, and there hardware choices aren't much better.although the pro is good specs.

Xbone was just a complete joke
I think a lot of stems from they stil live like they have monopoly no need to explain things properly, or advertise properly, people have no choice, or wait.

The lack of outlets is shocking as is there lame release dates. If they had released surface pro before Christmas 2012 I would have brought one. They also need 3G/4g and rt at least be available on contract. Be that the surface or even better a Nokia one.
And they need to train retail staff offer rewards or something, was in JLewis looking at tablets for my mum. Shop assistant was like iPads are the best, you'll want an ipad. This was after I explained it needed office and to run win apps, which meant an atom win8 tablet.

Now roll on surface pro2 or similar, I have money waiting.
 
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Office is keeping them afloat. They needed someone new before Ballmer took the reigns.
 
mattyfez said:
According to radio 4 he stands to make about 750 million from the share price rise.. Can't see him being too upset lol!
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But he will probably lose half that when his wife gets fed up of him hanging around the mansion and divorces him. Otherwise its a lot of golf.
 
Without getting dragged into the whole "market share" debate, all I would say is that yes, Microsoft did have a very good share of the market 10-15 years ago, and comparatively, they still do and are not that far off from the powerhouse that they were - they still dominate the desktop and server OS environments.

As the market has shifted, and new environments born (read as phone, tablet, console etc) they have failed to adapt quick enough in recent years, lending to the quick rise of both Google and Apple in the mobile arena.

Console-wise, Microsoft done well with the 1st and 2nd generation of Xbox, holding good sales and market share against (mostly) Sony. But as with most of their recent releases that are consumer based, they are sub-par with their offering and will feel the effects of that relatively quickly come release time - the Surface and Windows 8 are good examples here.

If they can find the right person to fill the role, that is quicker to adapt to an ever-changing market, then Microsoft will be in a strong position for a long time to come. Personally, I think they'll have a hard time of it though...
 
Glaucus said:
I think a lot of stems from they stil live like they have monopoly no need to explain things properly, or advertise properly, people have no choice, or wait.

The lack of outlets is shocking as is there lame release dates. If they had released surface pro before Christmas 2012 I would have brought one. They also need 3G/4g and rt at least be available on contract. Be that the surface or even better a Nokia one.
And they need to train retail staff offer rewards or something, was in JLewis looking at tablets for my mum. Shop assistant was like iPads are the best, you'll want an ipad. This was after I explained it needed office and to run win apps, which meant an atom win8 tablet.

Now roll on surface pro2 or similar, I have money waiting.
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I disagree on the first bit. I think it's actually them feeling like they're the boring uncool option next to apple and overcompensating by trying to do "fun" commercials that are "hip" and "YOLO" and hashtag :rolleyes: when they should be playing to their strengths: familiarity, compatibility, now available in the palm of your hand. Or "the same thing, but better than your last one (and here's why)" would have sufficed. There was no need for people popping and locking with surfaces. Let those people keep buying apple products. There are so many benefits to owning a Surface pro when you run W8 at home, yet there was NONE of that in their advertising. Just different coloured covers. I mean come the **** on!

And I agree that store staff are idiots and better training would have helped them sell better, but this is as much the retailers fault as anyone's. Poor quality staff who simply don't care about new products since their only motivation is targets that only exist to punish, not to reward. Apple have the benefit of choosing their own sales people and are quite rigorous about how they sell. Microsoft don't really have that ability.
 
Their youtube adverts show their strengths, but the only people who subscribe to the MS youtube channel, are the wrong target, they allready now the strengths, like true multitasking, complatability etc. albeit in a cring worthy way, with fake Siri voice.

Trouble with store staff is, the oem has to fund the training or/and provide the incentives, you can't expect the store to do it out of good will, there has to be a reason. After all it doesn't really matter what they sell as they get the profit from any platform.

Appple must pay the stores as there's always an apple stand and an apple expert in big stores. MS should do the same and not just with their products.
It's why I think nokia really needs to bring out an rt, then it could be sold as part of a contract and nokia could put incentives for the stores.
 
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PAz said:
Windows 8 is an awesome OS.
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No it's not....not at all

Windows 8 is like a phablet. The manufacturer tells you it's the best of a phone and the best of a tablet. You know it's the complete opposite. It's the worst of a tablet, and the worst of a phone. It's the same story with Windows 8. It's selling feature is to be great on the desktop and great on the tablet.

In actual fact, the tile interface is slow on a desktop, and the windows background processing is what makes it useless on a tablet.

from a business point of view it's a complete failure.

MS Ecosystem is way behind where it should be, PC sales are slowing and in 2014 it is predicted that tablets and phones will (for the first time) out sell PCs

RT isn't selling, and it's no wonder why. Why have the background issues with windows on a tablet...when you can't even run x86 apps on it?

Phone 8 isn't selling, again, no wonder why...ecosystem is VERY lacking

Steve Balmer needs to go and be replaced with someone who actually knows the tech industry in 2013

If I was in charge, I ditch RT and replace it will a new tablet/phone OS from the ground up. No windows background rubbish, just the metro interface sat in ROM.

Why on earth can I view the windowsupdate.log, or run DISM from command line on RT :confused: No wonder joe public isn't buying them.

The majority of businesses will stick with Windows 7 (I know windows 8 is six times less likely to get malware, and has all the great stuff for the enterprise) but at the end of the day most I think will sit this one out.

Unfortunately, it's another Vista

On a personal note, I run windows 8.1 and have owned four windows 8 tablet and a hybrid (dell xps 12). Whilst I will keep windows 8, I know for a fact in the outside world it's not selling. No matter what I think, if it's not brining money in the till it's failed.
 
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