Bangernomics

[Mr^B]

Of course.
How likely are you to crash that hard against something that it matters how many stars it has ?

I would far rather own a 15 Yr. old golf than a 1007.
Wait, scrap that, I'd like the 1007 so I can sell it for more than the golf and get a car more to my liking.

As for safety, it's the second last thing I'd look for in a car :

loads of stuff ( perf, comfort, costs, looks, etc)
...
...
...
...
Safety
Environment


The bottom 2 things I really don't care much about ( though I will appreciate ''safety'' driver aides like ABS. ESP is great for winter too, but how a pedestrian comes off for ramming him or how well the crumple zones work, I don't care.

Excellent, that's a really amazingly awesome argument.

...it's a pity that you didn't actually read the question I was answering which was purely about safety:

As for the safety card - I'd rather be in a 15 year old golf than a 2 year old 1007 in a crash any day.

Still, there's nothing like wading half-way into a discussion without understanding what's going on is there?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

It seems a bit like going camping in a field in Devon in the rain for your main holiday to save a bit of money :/

How about a week in the Italian lakes instead of a weekend in Devon DUE to the money saved on motoring....

 

[Jonny ///M]

I have heard that test was set up so the modus would win.
Regardless, what is point of you posting that, I know which one is safer in a crash but I'm ( currently) not interested in a 940 at all , nor does it represent what safety features I have in my car...

I said I don't care which one is safer when picking my car.

Well it wouldn't be good tv if the difference wasn't as obvious. It's not about being on the look out for a 940 it's about the perceived safety of big/heavy cars. The modus weighss what? Around half the volvo?

I know my dad doesn't ever intend to crash his laguna but it doesn't stop somebody hitting us so I quite like the idea I have a curtain airbag and funky stuff keeping me alive. The old laguna had two and a half star rating because the dash would come in and crush your knees and because the pedals were pushed up into your legs. That doesn't sound like much fun to me!

Excuse the epic spelling mistakes. Been up for 38 hours and took part in a fun event where a coach took off the passenger side mirror and smashed the front qaurter window + windscreen.

 

[Fr0dders]

I'd hardly call it a set up but they picked an very offset front impact test. Something the Volvo was never designed or tested for which is a big tested area for modern cars. The Volvo also has an inline engine so suffered more from the offset impact than something with a transverse engine which would have spread more of the load. In a straighter head on or a side impact the Volvo would have faired a lot better.

be sure to shout that at people when they try and serve and avoid a head on impact with you then.
not
"excuse me, can you just keep it straight and narrow please, no swerving as then i stand a better chance of not being killed"

somehow i dont think head on accidents work like that thats why euro ncap test it like that, as people react and try to avoid the collision. Very rarely do people just keep straight and heading straight into the car coming towards them.

 

[Locky]

This is one of the reasons I chose the Grande Espace over most, as I know they can take a good shunt, but it does have other problems though. like a poor spring design on the front.

 

[-Ad-]

If you must know a 9 year old seat Ibiza.

If you must jump on to one stupid post i made and then miss the ones that i explain what i meant that's fine.

Theres a difference between having a banger and having a 15 year old car becuase you like it,

but fair enough its probably right to be attacked for that post as it was rather stupid and i didn't explain it right.

You did dig yourself out of the hole with the other ones, it's all good

 

[Gribs]

be sure to shout that at people when they try and serve and avoid a head on impact with you then.
not
"excuse me, can you just keep it straight and narrow please, no swerving as then i stand a better chance of not being killed"

somehow i dont think head on accidents work like that thats why euro ncap test it like that, as people react and try to avoid the collision. Very rarely do people just keep straight and heading straight into the car coming towards them.

I quite agree it's a very relevent thing which is why it's heavily tested now, it's just something the Volvo really wasn't good for which makes for better tv.

 

[Kitchster_uk]

lol @ the safety guff tbh.

In 2008, there were a total of 2538 people killed on th UK road network of which 1257 were car users. Only 500 less were murdered and more than 12 times more drank themselves to death.

There were 32.4m vehicles on the road in 2008 with a conservative average mileage of 10k. That means there is a total of 1 fatality ever 133 MILLION miles. You are significantly more likely to win the lottery so whilst I wouldn't want to be mashed to death, taking into account the amount of deaths where boy racers have pranged a tree at 70 and where an 18 wheeler mashes into you and no NCAP will save you, I'll not worry about it at all and won't be trading a good car for a £20k turd with a 5* rating.

 

[[TW]Fox]

What were the figures for 1990, Kitchster?

Nobody is suggesting you trade your 4 star E39 in for a new car, anyway, its aimed at the guy who think its awesome to drive his family around in a £170 Proton.

 

[Kitchster_uk]

What were the figures for 1990, Kitchster?

Nobody is suggesting you trade your 4 star E39 in for a new car, anyway, its aimed at the guy who think its awesome to drive his family around in a £170 Proton.

Road deaths are decreasing year on year but so are the number of accidents as a % of the cars on the road. The £170 Proton of fail and horrible experience will be cubed if it's hit hard enough, no doubt but it is so unlikely that it will be hit, depending on the driver not being a loon, that it wouldn't stop me getting in it and driving it. OK, I'd be driving it to somewhere where I was picking up a decent car and not every day, but that's because the Proton is a steaming pile of cack, not because it fails NCAP.

My point was more aimed as the comments about buying some God-awful 5* Renaults brand new. To do this and spend £10k-£20k incase you drive that 1 mile in 133,000,000 is pure folly and paranoia.

 

[[TW]Fox]

You cannot accurately measure the number of accidents on the road - many happen without anyone being informed. You can only measure the number of accidents where people are killed or seriously injured. These are falling despite the number of cars increasing. I beleive this is mostly down to the better safety protection offered by modern cars - ie, if there is a crash, the change of it being KSI is far less - and the better performance/braking/safety systems on modern cars which help some crashes become near misses instead.

If we all drove £170 Protons the figures would rocket back up. You have no control over what happens when you are at the back of a traffic queue and whilst i am not going to suggest you rush out and buy some crappy 5 star NCAP thing (NCAP is IMHO deeply flawed) I think putting your family in a £170 Proton which was dire new and can only be far, far worse once it gets to this end of the market is downright reckless.

 

[cymatty]

My point was more aimed as the comments about buying some God-awful 5* Renaults brand new. To do this and spend £10k-£20k incase you drive that 1 mile in 133,000,000 is pure folly and paranoia.

It would be interesting to see as well out of those people killed how many were not wearing a seat belt.

 

[Will]

Nobody is suggesting you trade your 4 star E39 in for a new car, anyway, its aimed at the guy who think its awesome to drive his family around in a £170 Proton.

I think you're missing the way people value different things, its a matter of perspective rather than being something right or wrong.....in my view the only thing awesome about driving around in the Proton is how damn cheap it is, and lets face it, from his point of view, it *must* be awesome to spend so little money to get around - he's now free to spend money on things he values more.

To some people a car is no more an aspirational object than a toaster - 'white goods' is a term often thrown around to describe bland and boring cars here, and to many people a car is no more than that. This is reflected on the roads in terms of the condition of many cars and the approach to driving shown by many.

Likening driving an old banger to a crap holiday in a wet field doesn't sit right with me. The analogy only works if you see owning a smart car in the same way as you see a holiday - something to aspire to and something to enjoy. But for many people its not like that with cars - they see it as simply a tool to move you around.

Driving a cheap and nasty car is fine if you don't care too much about cars and see it as little more than transportational device, a simple step up from the bus. Why spend more than you can get away with?

If you like cars and aspire to have a nice one then driving a banger would be horrible, and for someone like you I can see why the idea seems terrible as you value a car by more than its ability to get you from A to B. Personally I view things the same way as yourself - I like cars a lot.

But for those who don't really care about how a car feels to drive, or how it looks, merely seeing it as a means to independence when it comes to getting around, then bangernomics makes sense as it makes things as cheap as possible. Nothing essentially wrong or strange about that to my mind - its just a different mindset when it comes to motoring and what you want from your vehicle.

For others...its simple financial reality that forces them into the cars that they have. But who am I to judge? Thats their business at the end of the day

The safety aspect of old bangers versus newer metal is considerable, I don't dispute older cars are generally more dangerous for their occupants, but its a fact most people drive around with the intention of not crashing, and how safe a car is in the event of a crash is way down the list of priorities even for car enthusiasts like you and I.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I disagree. I am not advocating that instead of a string of £170 cars you should instead drive an Audi or a Porsche.

I'm not particularly bothered, for example, about fashion. Infact wait, I'm not at all bothered. But I'm not going to walk around in torn jeans and a tatty tshirt because of that. I'm not going to go and spend £100+ on some designer jeans either, mind... just.. something half decent that does the job.

I dunno, just the idea of carrying the thing most precious to you in the entire world - your family - around in a rusty old Proton worth £170 - doesnt sit right with me.

And not simply because he hasn't gone and spent £10k on something flash. Heck even a 1500 quid car would be immeasurably better.

 

[Kitchster_uk]

Genuine question. Who would research their holiday airline's safety record and chge flights accordingly? surely it's the same.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Genuine question. Who would research their holiday airline's safety record and chge flights accordingly? surely it's the same.

I wouldn't fly with any of the African airlines, so...

 

[gbradders123]

my word there has been some clap trap spoken in this post. Just because you drive a banger does not mean you are not a bit of a petrol head, just not a snob.

bought an e30 325i for £216, ran it for 5 years, ended up getting so attached to it that i ran it as my only car for a bit, well only modern car anyway. was so much fun to drive, problem with a lot of moderns, i find is the lack of sporty feel to them. example would be a mate who decided he better get an e30, that he ended up using more than the mkV golf gti, just more fun for pratting about in.

of course a lot of bangers are hateful evil things that disturb me. due to a catalougue of breakdowns i am currntly borrowing the spare family 306 diesal thing, it is utterly terrible, nothing likeable about it, excpet possibly the fuel consumption.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I think we've already highlighted the distinction between people who love older cars and people who want to run a banger for the least amount of money possible.

 

[Busa]

This is for fox....i am not being reckless, my car is fine and is in good order, i would not knowingly put my family at risk by driving a death-trap and i object to you saying that i am reckless. I usually enjoy reading your posts but sometimes you do come across as ****.

 

[[TW]Fox]

So your £170 Proton has no excessively worn parts and at least matching semi-decent tyres on each axle?